Can Meditation Really Stop CRIME? The Shocking Research Behind Transcendental Meditation! EP 393

In this eye-opening episode of Grief 2 Growth, host Brian Smith sits down with Patricia Saunders, an expert in Transcendental Meditation (TM) and best-selling author, to explore a remarkable idea—can meditation really reduce crime and societal violence?

Patricia has been teaching TM for decades, both in the UK and the US, and is currently at Maharishi International University. Her groundbreaking work, particularly highlighted in her book An Antidote to Violence: Evaluating the Evidence, dives deep into the research behind TM’s potential to transform both individuals and society at large.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The science behind Transcendental Meditation and how it differs from other forms of meditation.
• How TM has been shown to reduce stress, anxiety, and create emotional stability.
• Shocking research that reveals how large-scale TM practice has led to reduced crime rates, lower violence, and societal transformation.
• Real-life case studies, including the Invincible America Assembly, where 2,000 people meditated together, resulting in fewer homicides and improved societal well-being.
• Insights into how you can contribute to societal peace by simply adopting a daily meditation practice.

About Our Guest:

Patricia Saunders is a seasoned Transcendental Meditation teacher and a passionate advocate for its societal benefits. She has taught TM in both the UK and the US and is currently based at Maharishi International University. In her book An Antidote to Violence, she presents compelling evidence from peer-reviewed studies showing how meditation can lead to a more peaceful world.

Continue the Conversation:

After listening, join us at grief2growth.com/community to discuss how you can be part of the movement toward a more peaceful, harmonious society. Share your thoughts, connect with like-minded listeners, and learn how meditation could transform your life—and the world around you.

Thanks for your support. Stay tuned for more exciting stuff next year.

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You can send me a text by clicking the link at the top of the show notes. Use fanmail to:

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Can't wait to hear from you!

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https://www.grief2growth.com/ndelessons

Transcript

[Speaker 1] [0.56s] Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that causes the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be.
[Speaker 1] [17.18s] We feel like we've been buried.
[Speaker 1] [19.26s] But what if like a seed we've been planted and having been planted, we grow to become a mighty tree.
[Speaker 1] [27.98s] Now, open your eyes, Open your eyes to this way of viewing life.
[Speaker 1] [33.21s] Come with me as we explore your true infinite, eternal nature.
[Speaker 1] [38.89s] This is grief to growth.
[Speaker 1] [40.73s] And I am your host, Brian Smith.
[Speaker 1] [45.02s] Welcome to Grief 2 Growth, everyone, where we explore life's most profound questions, who we are, why we're here, and how we can navigate the the inevitable challenges of life.
[Speaker 1] [54.30s] My name is Brian Smith, and I'm whether you're a longtime listener or you're joining us for the first time, thanks for being here.
[Speaker 1] [60.68s] Our mission is to help you transform grief and hardship into growth and understanding.
[Speaker 1] [65.08s] Until the end of the day, I'm excited to welcome Patricia Saunders to the show.
[Speaker 1] [68.92s] Patricia is a long time teacher of transcendental meditation, having taught for years in the UK and now working at Maharishi International University here in the US.
[Speaker 1] [79.63s] She's a best selling author of the book An Antidote to Violence Evaluating the Evidence that dives into the fascinating concept that meditation not only benefits individuals, but can also create societal change.
[Speaker 1] [92.58s] So imagine that by reducing personal stress through meditation, we can actually reduce violence, crime, and even societal unrest.
[Speaker 1] [100.20s] Today, we're going to explore those ideas and talk about the peer review research that backs us up.
[Speaker 1] [106.12s] We'll talk about the transcendental meditation technique itself, what makes it different from other forms of meditation, and how it can really transform our lives by expanding happiness.
[Speaker 1] [116.99s] She'll share insights of higher states of consciousness, how these stages of personal development can lead to deeper and more lasting joy and happiness, which is what we all want.
[Speaker 1] [126.43s] Right?
[Speaker 1] [127.06s] And what it means for the future of our society if more people adopt this practice.
[Speaker 1] [131.71s] So if you're curious about meditation's potential to create both personal happiness in a more peaceful world, you're in the right place today.
[Speaker 1] [139.22s] So stick around for ways we're for the conversation.
[Speaker 1] [142.42s] And after we have the conversation, join us at grief to growth.com/community to continue the conversation there.
[Speaker 1] [148.66s] And with that, I wanna welcome to Grief to Growth, Patricia Saunders.
[Speaker 2] [153.13s] Thank you, Brian.
[Speaker 2] [154.17s] Thank you very much for inviting me on.
[Speaker 2] [156.09s] It's, it's a great honor to be here, and I totally support everything that you've just said about your own podcast and, hope that I have something useful to contribute to it.
[Speaker 1] [169.76s] Oh, I'm absolutely sure that you do have something useful to contribute.
[Speaker 1] [173.60s] I I I like I was reading about your your your information you gave me to introduce, and you said, you know, basically, the purpose of life is to, life of creation is to to expand the happiness.
[Speaker 1] [183.87s] And I think the, the Maharishi said that.
[Speaker 1] [186.26s] So could you tell me what that actually means?
[Speaker 2] [189.47s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [189.87s] I can.
[Speaker 2] [190.67s] I mean, happiness is something we all want.
[Speaker 2] [193.94s] It's something we all feel we have a right to.
[Speaker 2] [196.46s] And that we should be able to achieve, and I'm not talking about temporary happiness.
[Speaker 2] [202.14s] I mean, we can find, you know, temporary happiness in different ways.
[Speaker 2] [206.14s] I mean, a a very, you know, a really nice friendship or a loving relationship or, you know, even a a sort of wedding can make us feel happy or the hobbies we have or the work we have if we enjoy it.
[Speaker 2] [225.32s] And that's good, I mean that's, you know, that's important in people's lives, all those things.
[Speaker 2] [230.92s] But they are on the temporary scale because I mean, a friendship can change.
[Speaker 2] [239.09s] Somebody moves away, so it becomes a little more distant.
[Speaker 2] [243.34s] Relationships, well, we know what can happen with relationships.
[Speaker 2] [248.06s] You know, all these things are very temporary.
[Speaker 2] [252.30s] So what Maharishi who brought the translative meditate translative meditation technique to the west is talking about is a very deep permanent happiness.
[Speaker 2] [264.21s] Something that is a very stable joy that we have inside, that we can develop inside.
[Speaker 2] [269.65s] Let's put it that way.
[Speaker 2] [271.18s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [271.89s] So that it doesn't matter what we're doing.
[Speaker 2] [275.74s] We have that stability inside, that that sense of joy knowing who we are.
[Speaker 2] [282.54s] And whatever happens we we carry that with us.
[Speaker 2] [285.90s] We don't lose it.
[Speaker 2] [287.66s] And that takes some time to develop, but it does start with really the very first few meditations that we actually have.
[Speaker 2] [301.43s] And I'm talking about translate meditation because it's the technique I do myself, I teach and all the rest of it.
[Speaker 2] [309.72s] But any meditation technique that somebody does, any credible meditation technique should also, you know, bring about the same thing.
[Speaker 2] [320.68s] But I only know how to talk about TM, Translated Meditation, really, so that's what I'm going to talk about.
[Speaker 2] [327.28s] And it's a very simple mental technique.
[Speaker 2] [330.88s] It's practiced silently with the eyes closed, sitting in a comfortable position.
[Speaker 2] [338.30s] It doesn't focus on breathing.
[Speaker 2] [340.06s] It's not concentration.
[Speaker 2] [341.50s] We don't have to try to clear our mind.
[Speaker 2] [344.30s] It just allows the active thinking mind to settle down inwardly and experience what we call pure consciousness or the transcendent.
[Speaker 2] [355.48s] And at that point, we transcend all activity of the mind and just experience peace and happiness.
[Speaker 2] [363.51s] And it's an experience that's way beyond the mind and the senses.
[Speaker 2] [368.55s] The transcendental state, well, what can I say about that?
[Speaker 2] [372.31s] It's different to the states of consciousness we're familiar with, waking, dreaming, sleeping, and so on.
[Speaker 2] [379.76s] It's a 4th state of consciousness that's beyond those 3.
[Speaker 2] [386.08s] All concept of, I think the relative world just fades away at that time and the mind just slips into this universal field of peace and bliss.
[Speaker 2] [399.58s] This universal field of consciousness that lies beyond the mind and the senses.
[Speaker 2] [406.11s] And people call it with different names, I mean depending on the tradition.
[Speaker 2] [411.06s] It's been called Samadhi, the self, the tau for instance, being, oneness, and the peace of God that passeth all understanding.
[Speaker 2] [420.62s] There are many, many different names depending on the tradition, but it's really just one one field, one omnipresent field that gives rise to everything.
[Speaker 2] [432.90s] Everything that we see, at least this is my philosophy and my understanding as well of the transcendent.
[Speaker 2] [442.50s] It gives rise to everything.
[Speaker 2] [444.19s] It permeates everything, and we've just forgotten it.
[Speaker 2] [447.79s] We've forgotten to look for it.
[Speaker 2] [449.31s] We've gotten to find it, and we've forgotten that it exists within ourselves.
[Speaker 2] [457.07s] You know, we we look tend to look for happiness in different directions.
[Speaker 2] [461.92s] I mean, even people struggling for success in business or power in politics or something, you know, we we all need happiness.
[Speaker 2] [473.27s] It doesn't matter where we are, and we all need to find the transcendent and to experience the transcendent because it's a little bit like the old method of dyeing cloth.
[Speaker 2] [488.19s] I expect some of your readers anyway will be familiar with this.
[Speaker 2] [491.55s] You know, you you have a piece of ordinary cloth and you want to dye it yellow for instance.
[Speaker 2] [497.31s] So you dip it in the dye, and in the old days they used to leave it out in the sun to fade it.
[Speaker 2] [503.01s] And then they dip it back in the dye, leave it out in the sun, some would fade it, but not quite as much as the time before.
[Speaker 2] [510.37s] And so it goes on until the dye is fast.
[Speaker 2] [514.63s] And that's really what's happening with Transcendental Meditation is that we're dipping into the transcendent.
[Speaker 2] [521.90s] And every time we experience that very deep peace, and that very deep happiness then every time we come back from that we bring something a tiny little bit back with us.
[Speaker 2] [538.21s] And that gradually builds up in our physiology, in our awareness.
[Speaker 2] [544.00s] Everything that we are until, you know, we just carry around that inner stability of peace and that happiness that comes with that.
[Speaker 2] [554.73s] I mean, peace is really the basis of happiness.
[Speaker 2] [557.37s] I mean, without peace there can be no happiness.
[Speaker 2] [561.89s] Very hard to be happy if one's living in turmoil and stress everywhere.
[Speaker 2] [567.49s] We get it from the news.
[Speaker 2] [568.69s] We get it from adverts.
[Speaker 2] [570.61s] You know, it comes across in the media, the movies that we watch, and so on.
[Speaker 2] [577.62s] We need to somehow step back from all that.
[Speaker 2] [580.42s] I mean, there are there are plenty of outlets which will just say, well, you know, this is it.
[Speaker 2] [587.86s] You have one life and you make the most of that life and so on and so on and then that's it.
[Speaker 2] [595.28s] But that isn't it.
[Speaker 2] [597.12s] That's very far from it.
[Speaker 2] [599.28s] I mean, I don't know what many of your audience, most of your audience would think.
[Speaker 2] [607.78s] I hold to the idea of, obviously, of reincarnation.
[Speaker 2] [613.78s] I think that we live many lives until we reach a state of fulfillment, and then we're in a very full place, fullfilled place wherever we are.
[Speaker 2] [624.90s] But that's a sort of an aside because one doesn't have to adopt any particular belief.
[Speaker 2] [630.98s] You know, one practices TM in the say that one might practice yoga or Tai Chi practice Tai Chi or Taekwondo or something like that.
[Speaker 2] [640.89s] But all these things have deeper levels, which we can adopt if we want to.
[Speaker 2] [648.95s] It's enough to just practice TM for about 20 minutes morning and evening.
[Speaker 2] [657.43s] Just sitting in any comfortable position, not adopting any particular state, and that's enough.
[Speaker 2] [665.13s] One can obviously go into it further.
[Speaker 2] [667.05s] One can explore the the knowledge behind transcendental meditation.
[Speaker 2] [672.17s] One can take on advanced techniques, but you don't have to.
[Speaker 2] [675.85s] It's not a belief system.
[Speaker 2] [678.17s] It's not a religion.
[Speaker 2] [680.49s] It's it's just a temp a technique.
[Speaker 2] [683.29s] Simple, mental, natural technique.
[Speaker 2] [687.61s] And, so what do we actually get?
[Speaker 2] [690.25s] I mean, you know, you asked about happiness, the goal.
[Speaker 2] [694.13s] I mean, you're you're really talking about the goal of life.
[Speaker 2] [697.50s] And I think for really that the goal of life is to increase, experience and increase, that deep long lasting happiness that makes everything worthwhile.
[Speaker 2] [712.23s] So that whatever we're doing we're still inside and we can't be knocked around like a football of circumstances.
[Speaker 2] [720.13s] I mean, everything today, it's it's so it there's so much turmoil, so much divisiveness and polarity and all the rest of it.
[Speaker 2] [729.98s] But if you have that stillness inside, then yes, you know, one can see one side, one can see the other side.
[Speaker 2] [738.13s] One can, you know, not be knocked around by different opinions and different views and so on.
[Speaker 2] [747.26s] So what does TM actually do on just on the sort of in a way, kind of the the superficial level?
[Speaker 2] [754.71s] Not the superficial level, but the more mundane everyday level.
[Speaker 2] [759.62s] What it does is it helps to activate the body's relaxation response, and so it reduces stress and anxiety.
[Speaker 2] [769.22s] And that's a very important factor especially if somebody has been, you know, experiencing a lot of a lot of stress, a lot of anxiety.
[Speaker 2] [782.51s] Those are shadows on life.
[Speaker 2] [784.51s] I mean, they don't bring any joy with them.
[Speaker 2] [788.47s] They just somehow shadow our ability to to see the, you know, the real happiness in life that exists there just under the surface.
[Speaker 2] [800.55s] And it improves mental clarity and overall cognitive functioning, which is important if one's working or, you know, in just, in in being involved in hobbies or whatever.
[Speaker 2] [815.79s] And it also promotes a state of inner calm and emotional stability, overall well-being.
[Speaker 2] [822.51s] But I think, you know, for the purposes of people who are suffering or have suffered from grief, Emotional stability is something that is very, very important and something again that people want because, you know, grief again, it's a it's another shadow.
[Speaker 2] [841.95s] It's inevitable.
[Speaker 2] [843.34s] You know, something happens, there's some change.
[Speaker 2] [845.50s] It's not just involved.
[Speaker 2] [847.50s] Grief doesn't just involve, you know, somebody deceased.
[Speaker 2] [853.10s] It involves any kind of change, you know, something changes, a friendship changes, you know, a a relationship ends or we have to move house, you know, work takes us somewhere else.
[Speaker 2] [868.36s] And there is some grief involved.
[Speaker 2] [870.60s] There's always some grief involved in those.
[Speaker 2] [873.38s] But just to develop that emotional stability is very important.
[Speaker 2] [879.70s] Because alright you have to move house, well then you do this, this, this and this and you move.
[Speaker 2] [886.82s] It doesn't mean that one doesn't feel anything, but it means there's much more stability than there has been in the past.
[Speaker 1] [895.29s] Yeah.
[Speaker 2] [897.62s] And, I mean, I can go on forever, Brian.
[Speaker 2] [900.80s] So
[Speaker 1] [901.20s] No.
[Speaker 1] [901.36s] I I can tell you're very enthusiastic about it, and that's awesome.
[Speaker 1] [904.64s] I I and thank you for that for that explanation.
[Speaker 1] [907.36s] I'm just I'm curious as to what brought you to TM.
[Speaker 1] [911.36s] Did you practice other techniques before?
[Speaker 1] [914.12s] What were you looking for?
[Speaker 1] [915.24s] How did what was what's your background with it?
[Speaker 2] [919.15s] I didn't practice any other techniques, but I was definitely searching.
[Speaker 2] [924.03s] I mean, I searched in all sorts of different ways.
[Speaker 2] [927.08s] I mean, I read books on theosophy for instance, which, was sort of prominent and popular in the, I don't know, the 19 twenties, 19 thirties.
[Speaker 2] [941.97s] I read books on how to achieve peace inside and how to, you know, all these how to books that help you, feel better about yourself and about the world and everything.
[Speaker 2] [959.15s] And I was a little interested in, astrology, for instance, and I started reading up on that.
[Speaker 2] [967.47s] And then other other things came in.
[Speaker 2] [969.95s] I explored some, I explored the the religion I was brought up in, which was Christianity, quite extensively at that time.
[Speaker 2] [979.89s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [980.54s] Somehow, you know, it excuse me.
[Speaker 2] [985.13s] It all helped, but nothing quite filled what I was looking for, the gap that was there.
[Speaker 2] [994.09s] And then I happened to actually, it's quite funny really.
[Speaker 2] [997.85s] I happened to bump into my dentist's wife in the parking lot, and she had organised a talk on Translative Meditation because both she and her husband did it.
[Speaker 2] [1009.36s] And he was my dentist so, you know, I was quite interested because I didn't somehow associate my very staid respectable dentist with, practicing some rather weird sounding, meditation technique from, that came from another culture.
[Speaker 2] [1030.39s] So I was curious, so I went along.
[Speaker 2] [1033.67s] But, you know, the person who gave the talk was a wonderful individual.
[Speaker 2] [1039.12s] And I just had the feeling, this is it.
[Speaker 2] [1042.21s] I have to do this.
[Speaker 2] [1043.17s] At least I have to try it.
[Speaker 2] [1045.09s] So I did, and I've never looked back.
[Speaker 2] [1047.89s] I took advanced techniques, became a teacher of it, and of course ended up in the United States.
[Speaker 2] [1054.82s] And I came here to begin with anyway to to be on a very long meditation course, which was designed to, not only help individuals experience, deeper levels of consciousness, higher states of consciousness, but also had the aim of reducing crime in the u in the US and, just generally improving the quality of life.
[Speaker 2] [1086.01s] And it was called the invincible America assembly.
[Speaker 2] [1089.69s] So I went, you know, I spent time on that.
[Speaker 2] [1093.69s] It's actually very interesting what happened with that, actually.
[Speaker 2] [1097.35s] If I can, just move ahead a little bit.
[Speaker 2] [1102.87s] You did say I could ramble.
[Speaker 2] [1105.03s] I'm very good at rambling.
[Speaker 2] [1106.31s] That's never a problem.
[Speaker 1] [1107.91s] That's awesome.
[Speaker 1] [1108.79s] Please please do.
[Speaker 2] [1110.38s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [1111.10s] So, yeah.
[Speaker 2] [1114.93s] So the the actual course began in 2,006.
[Speaker 2] [1120.21s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [1120.54s] But the main part of the experiment was between 2,007 and 2,011.
[Speaker 2] [1129.24s] So, what happened?
[Speaker 2] [1133.72s] There about 2,000 people came together all in one place, and practised both translational meditation and the more advanced, translational meditation siddhi program, which is just an advanced TM program.
[Speaker 2] [1150.49s] And we practiced it together.
[Speaker 2] [1152.89s] And then after a while, between 2,007, it's quite interesting because, those who were researching, who were measuring the connection between the numbers practicing Transcendental Meditation and the crime rate.
[Speaker 2] [1174.88s] And for instance, the amount of, drug overdoses and, I think car accidents and other accidents within the US saw that it was going down, so they were all going down very considerably.
[Speaker 2] [1191.91s] The details of all this, by the way, are in my book, Creating A Happy World.
[Speaker 2] [1195.43s] So, I don't have to go into all the details.
[Speaker 2] [1198.88s] But just to say, there was an undoubted connection between the build up of numbers in the, in Fairfield, in the domes where everybody came together and practiced TM.
[Speaker 2] [1214.55s] And, you know, this improvement in the quality of life, It's been seen before.
[Speaker 2] [1221.68s] It's been seen ever since 1974 actually, which is quite interesting.
[Speaker 2] [1227.29s] And I think it was soon after that that the first published paper, peer reviewed paper on the phenomenon was actually, you know, was actually published.
[Speaker 2] [1238.20s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [1239.40s] But the since then there have been something like 20, 21, 22 other studies that have been done.
[Speaker 2] [1246.84s] And to me published in very reputable journals.
[Speaker 2] [1251.93s] You know, social science journals, conflict resolution journals, and so on.
[Speaker 2] [1256.97s] The thing about measuring all these different variables like, death, homicides, fewer homicides, or fewer drug overdoses, fewer car accidents and so on, is that they are not related.
[Speaker 2] [1276.45s] Normally somebody might, a researcher might measure one of these like, homicides for instance, a decrease in homicides.
[Speaker 2] [1285.58s] And they see there's a a new initiative that the police are doing.
[Speaker 2] [1291.17s] So the, you know, the city or the wherever the town is, looked at.
[Speaker 2] [1299.47s] The statistics are measured and, and they can see a result, but they won't necessarily see a result in decreased car accidents or decreased drug overdoses.
[Speaker 2] [1313.88s] Right.
[Speaker 2] [1314.29s] These things are not necessarily connected.
[Speaker 2] [1317.17s] And yet when we had large enough numbers of people practicing, TM and its advanced programs in the domes in Fairfield, then there was a very, very noticeable decrease in all, a lot of different variables.
[Speaker 2] [1333.63s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [1334.83s] Now, of course, you know, those 2,000 people had to be financed.
[Speaker 2] [1341.30s] So sponsorship came from, some very wealthy individuals who, you know, who were in a position to be able to do that.
[Speaker 2] [1348.98s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [1349.54s] And that succeeded between 2,007 and 2,011.
[Speaker 2] [1353.78s] But of course, you know, in 2,011, the inevitable happened and the finance was no longer readily available.
[Speaker 2] [1363.76s] And, from then onwards, numbers decreased in the domes.
[Speaker 2] [1370.08s] And, of course, the quality of life decreased as well.
[Speaker 2] [1373.94s] I mean, homicides increased and, you know, all these other things that I mentioned also increased.
[Speaker 2] [1380.18s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [1380.58s] So, you know, there was a definite correlation, between the people practicing transcendental meditation, advanced techniques in, the dome in one place.
[Speaker 2] [1393.67s] And what was happening in the well, actually in this instance, the whole of the United States because what is being seen or what is being, put forward is that it seems to be that if 1% of the population, of a city practice translated meditation or the square root of 1 percent of the population practice translated meditation and it's more advanced programs, then that's when you start to see a decrease in the crime rate.
[Speaker 2] [1427.42s] It's like a tipping point.
[Speaker 2] [1430.24s] You know, you have this tipping point and then improvements started.
[Speaker 2] [1434.88s] Sorry, Brian.
[Speaker 2] [1435.52s] Did you want to say something?
[Speaker 2] [1436.48s] Yeah.
[Speaker 1] [1436.56s] I just wanna interrupt you just for a second.
[Speaker 1] [1438.56s] So, just so I understand, you said it in the dome.
[Speaker 1] [1441.44s] So you were physically coming together to practice.
[Speaker 1] [1443.76s] Is that correct?
[Speaker 2] [1444.48s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [1445.12s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [1445.36s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [1445.67s] We did.
[Speaker 2] [1446.39s] We had 2,000 people in one place.
[Speaker 2] [1449.60s] Wow.
[Speaker 2] [1450.08s] They were doing a long, long program.
[Speaker 2] [1452.95s] I mean, it was, about 8 hours a day.
[Speaker 1] [1456.63s] Wow.
[Speaker 2] [1457.04s] So they were not able to work.
[Speaker 2] [1458.56s] You know, it wasn't a situation where they could go out and work during the day and come back in the evening.
[Speaker 2] [1463.81s] Wow.
[Speaker 2] [1464.69s] Really together for the whole period.
[Speaker 2] [1467.73s] And that was when there was a very, very noticeable decrease, in homicide.
[Speaker 2] [1474.42s] I mentioned that specifically because that's probably what concerns people most.
[Speaker 2] [1479.87s] A very noticeable decrease in homicides.
[Speaker 2] [1484.92s] Infant mortality was another one that was mentioned that was, sort of measured.
[Speaker 2] [1490.20s] So all these different variables showed an increase.
[Speaker 2] [1494.92s] What do I mean?
[Speaker 2] [1495.80s] It it showed a decrease.
[Speaker 2] [1498.34s] An improvement.
[Speaker 2] [1499.05s] That's the word I was looking for.
[Speaker 2] [1500.34s] Thank you.
[Speaker 1] [1501.05s] Yeah.
[Speaker 2] [1501.86s] And, so, you know, I mean, we would absolutely love to see, more sponsorship for this.
[Speaker 2] [1512.02s] We would love to see even government sponsorship.
[Speaker 2] [1515.99s] I mean, I may be asking a lot, but it's been measured too many times.
[Speaker 2] [1520.79s] I mean, you know, one one research experiment like that might be a coincidence.
[Speaker 2] [1527.70s] 2, you might say, well, there could be other factors involved.
[Speaker 2] [1530.66s] 5, you might say, well, you know, okay.
[Speaker 2] [1533.87s] There might be something in it, but there's not enough really to really prove it.
[Speaker 1] [1537.38s] Right.
[Speaker 2] [1537.79s] But 20, 21, 22 all showing the same thing.
[Speaker 2] [1543.92s] It's it's to it's beyond.
[Speaker 2] [1546.48s] It's not a coincidence.
[Speaker 2] [1547.60s] It's it's beyond, it's beyond conventional thinking too.
[Speaker 2] [1553.20s] And one needs people, you know, wealthy people, governments to be able to think outside the box really and say, okay, I'll try it.
[Speaker 2] [1563.72s] Even if they want to prove that we're wrong, let them set up a group and try it.
[Speaker 2] [1567.96s] Prove us right, prove us wrong.
[Speaker 2] [1570.20s] The important thing is to have a large group and demonstrate that this is a very real phenomenon.
[Speaker 1] [1577.80s] I've got I but the engineering means coming out, so I've I've got a few questions for you.
[Speaker 1] [1582.40s] So, in terms of are you familiar with Lynn McTaggart, the work that she's done?
[Speaker 2] [1589.61s] I've heard the name.
[Speaker 2] [1590.97s] You know?
[Speaker 2] [1591.61s] She's done.
[Speaker 2] [1592.09s] Familiar, but I know the name.
[Speaker 1] [1593.68s] It's similar work with, but it's more like the power of intention.
[Speaker 1] [1596.97s] So it's like people set an intention.
[Speaker 1] [1598.81s] So I wanna understand what what the the meditation that you were doing and the these groups are doing.
[Speaker 1] [1604.09s] Was it wasn't focused on any part because it's as I understand TM, it's like it's the opposite of some other meditation techniques where it's focused concentration.
[Speaker 1] [1612.58s] So you weren't focusing on, like, we're trying to drive down the murder rate or we're trying to improve.
[Speaker 1] [1617.21s] You were just doing TM.
[Speaker 1] [1618.49s] Is that correct?
[Speaker 2] [1619.92s] That's correct.
[Speaker 2] [1622.00s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [1622.32s] I mean, that's very interesting and I definitely want to, you know, I'd like to meet her, and I definitely like to know more about what she's doing.
[Speaker 2] [1630.56s] I think the thing is that I mentioned earlier the transcendent.
[Speaker 2] [1636.13s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [1636.68s] Transcendent can be described as being it's, you know, Samadhi.
[Speaker 2] [1641.09s] It's a universal state of conscious not state of consciousness.
[Speaker 2] [1645.96s] It's a universal consciousness Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [1648.93s] That permeates everything.
[Speaker 2] [1652.07s] So if we if the mind settles down to that field and experiences that peace and happiness, it can be described as maybe dropping a stone in a pond.
[Speaker 2] [1665.33s] You drop a stone in a pond here, and the ripples just ripple out across the, you know, across the wherever.
[Speaker 2] [1675.33s] I mean, across the state, across the country.
[Speaker 2] [1677.73s] I mean, if we had a large enough group across the world, but I mean, wherever, doesn't matter.
[Speaker 2] [1682.43s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [1684.11s] So I think it can be understood in that way because that the transcendent, I mean, we call it pure consciousness.
[Speaker 2] [1692.51s] It's omnipresent.
[Speaker 2] [1693.99s] It's everywhere.
[Speaker 2] [1695.60s] It's like something that is just beyond our field of vision that we don't experience.
[Speaker 1] [1704.15s] Right.
[Speaker 2] [1704.56s] But it's there, and it's the most important thing, probably the most important thing in the universe.
[Speaker 2] [1712.68s] Well, I mean, it is the most important thing in the universe because it gave you know, as far as I'm concerned, it gave rise to the universe.
[Speaker 1] [1719.32s] Right.
[Speaker 2] [1720.20s] But, again, you know, if one can influence that, and you can only influence in a positive way because that field, the transcendent being, Samadhi, whatever the dao, whatever you want to call it, it's it's a completely positive, field.
[Speaker 1] [1740.17s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [1740.81s] And it's not possible to think very, you know, negative thoughts from that field.
[Speaker 2] [1747.61s] When the mind settles down, it just becomes more peaceful, more happy, more, I think, more in a state of grace, one could even call it.
[Speaker 1] [1760.67s] Right.
[Speaker 1] [1761.47s] So Yeah.
[Speaker 1] [1762.91s] Just I'm sorry to interrupt.
[Speaker 1] [1764.03s] I wanna I wanna make sure that the the listeners are following along with this.
[Speaker 1] [1768.19s] Because when it comes to meditation, a lot of us, we've heard different things, and we might have heard of TM from, like, the seventies.
[Speaker 1] [1775.55s] And for some of us, that's kind of before we were doing all this.
[Speaker 1] [1778.27s] So we're like, yeah.
[Speaker 1] [1779.23s] I've heard of this thing called TM, but now there's all this as you you mentioned earlier, there's focus on your breath, focused on this.
[Speaker 1] [1786.45s] There's you know, people are doing law of attraction and manifestation where you're, you know, you're folk you're really focusing.
[Speaker 1] [1793.33s] So Yeah.
[Speaker 1] [1794.37s] Just to just to reiterate with transcendental meditation, we are literally not focusing.
[Speaker 1] [1801.42s] So could you explain to people, like, how that works?
[Speaker 1] [1803.58s] When when I sit down to do my my meditation, what am I doing?
[Speaker 1] [1808.22s] Okay.
[Speaker 2] [1811.09s] What I should say first of all is that, translated meditation has this effect because it allows the mind, the individual mind to expand to that universal mind, that universal being.
[Speaker 2] [1825.80s] Yeah.
[Speaker 2] [1826.66s] As far as I understand it, I think any real credible meditation that allows the mind to settle down and experience pure being, transcendent, should have a similar effect regardless.
[Speaker 1] [1845.74s] Yes.
[Speaker 1] [1846.07s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [1846.46s] Should have a similar effect.
[Speaker 2] [1847.98s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [1849.42s] Intention is obviously important, but you don't need to I mean, the intention would just fade away anyway when one experiences pure consciousness.
[Speaker 2] [1861.38s] Where it is a little bit difficult to explain other than just by saying that, it's like dropping a stone, dropping a rock, dropping a boulder, whatever into a large pond.
[Speaker 2] [1877.88s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [1879.15s] And watching the water just ripple out and affect everyone at that level of being.
[Speaker 1] [1888.43s] Yeah.
[Speaker 1] [1888.75s] But Yeah.
[Speaker 2] [1889.63s] You know, I I'm not I'm not saying that, having a good intention isn't important.
[Speaker 2] [1896.49s] It is important.
[Speaker 1] [1897.46s] No.
[Speaker 1] [1897.62s] It's no.
[Speaker 1] [1898.17s] And it's it's really interesting to me because I think you're right.
[Speaker 1] [1900.98s] Any any meditation technique is trying to get us to the same place.
[Speaker 1] [1905.38s] There's different ways of getting there, you know, different paths to to to reach that state.
[Speaker 1] [1911.24s] And and not that anyone is better or any worse than than the other one.
[Speaker 1] [1915.96s] I've tried several.
[Speaker 1] [1917.96s] I've I've I've started off with content contemplative prayer, you know, back I was a Christian, And I was like, I need to find something to settle my mind, so I started doing some reading.
[Speaker 1] [1927.63s] And I found about this this practice that Christians do called contemplative prayer, and I moved from that to to other other techniques.
[Speaker 1] [1933.32s] And there's so much out there today.
[Speaker 1] [1936.42s] And, there's a guy that I that I work with now.
[Speaker 1] [1939.22s] His name is Kelvin Chen, and he studied TM, like, 40, 50 years ago.
[Speaker 1] [1945.54s] And he's kind of got this, technique now he teaches called turning within.
[Speaker 1] [1949.74s] And what I noticed with with me, anyway, it was a bunch of unlearning because we are so focused, you know, especially in the west on technique.
[Speaker 1] [1958.31s] How do I do this?
[Speaker 1] [1959.35s] And he's like, stop trying.
[Speaker 1] [1961.11s] You know?
[Speaker 1] [1961.66s] It really kinda comes down to that.
[Speaker 2] [1964.25s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [1964.49s] It's true.
[Speaker 2] [1965.61s] I mean, you know, I think any meditation, any credible meditation, will have the same effect.
[Speaker 2] [1975.69s] One thing I will say about intention is is pretty much what I think about prayer.
[Speaker 2] [1983.72s] People pray and if they pray they're expecting they want a result or they want to feel they've had some impact on someone somewhere, you know, in a in a positive way.
[Speaker 1] [1998.49s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [1999.13s] Healing of some sort.
[Speaker 2] [2002.49s] The deeper levels of the mind are more powerful.
[Speaker 2] [2005.29s] They're more charming.
[Speaker 2] [2007.35s] They draw the mind like nothing else does.
[Speaker 2] [2010.70s] I mean the mind isn't wondering at random, the mind wanders in order to find something more fulfilling.
[Speaker 2] [2018.70s] So if the mind is given a technique that's a little bit like diving off a diving board that just allows the mind to be able to experience this.
[Speaker 2] [2028.92s] And TM is a mantra technique as I think people probably know.
[Speaker 2] [2033.96s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2036.12s] Then it has you know, it draws the mind down.
[Speaker 2] [2039.49s] And what I was going to say about prayer is that prayer and I would think intention are more powerful if they're if they come from a deeper level of the mind.
[Speaker 2] [2052.99s] The surface level of the mind is probably the least powerful level of the mind.
[Speaker 1] [2058.43s] Interesting.
[Speaker 2] [2059.07s] But as the mind settles down, you know, the thinking softens, feeling is, the feeling just becomes more positive.
[Speaker 2] [2071.13s] There's more bliss.
[Speaker 2] [2072.09s] There's more happiness.
[Speaker 2] [2073.68s] Any prayer that comes from a deeper level of the mind is going to be more effective.
[Speaker 2] [2079.62s] And that's why it's very good to pray after meditation.
[Speaker 2] [2083.06s] Wow.
[Speaker 2] [2083.46s] Because the mind is still at that level.
[Speaker 2] [2086.42s] Yeah.
[Speaker 2] [2086.82s] Well, it's not it's not at the deepest level, but it still, has the influence of that very deep state of being of oneness.
[Speaker 2] [2095.93s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2096.72s] To pray after meditation is going to be far more effective.
[Speaker 1] [2102.64s] That's a that's a really interesting observation, and that that makes a lot of sense.
[Speaker 1] [2106.72s] And it's it that's it's really it's interesting you say that because, like I said, I started I write about these Christian mystics that we do, they call it contemplative prayer.
[Speaker 1] [2115.38s] So I think it's a way of reaching that that deeper state where you're closer to to source than we are with the with the surface level of the mind, which is, you know, it's it's kinda scattered.
[Speaker 1] [2126.89s] And what what's interesting about the the TM technique versus and I don't even like to call it a technique, but the TM way of doing things versus some of the other things is a lot of us say people will say to me, because I'm like I tell everybody, you have to practice mindfulness.
[Speaker 1] [2142.58s] You you know, it just it's like, do you brush your teeth every day?
[Speaker 1] [2145.94s] Then you have to practice mindfulness.
[Speaker 1] [2148.02s] But you have to find what works for you.
[Speaker 1] [2150.24s] And people get really frustrated because they're told, sit down and stop thinking.
[Speaker 1] [2156.16s] And that's that's impossible.
[Speaker 1] [2159.04s] We can't do it.
[Speaker 1] [2159.68s] So people get frustrated and they get up and say, I and you don't understand I can't meditate because I can't stop my mind.
[Speaker 2] [2166.56s] You don't need to stop the mind because once the mind has an angle, once the mind is able just to settle down, the mind the deeper levels of the mind will draw it.
[Speaker 2] [2180.93s] They'll draw the, you know, the surface level down until it does experience the most it spares its source basically in being or as I say, tau or whatever you want to call it.
[Speaker 2] [2195.22s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2196.98s] You know, the mind will settle down to that level providing it's given a technique that can allow it to do that
[Speaker 1] [2204.02s] Right.
[Speaker 2] [2204.58s] Without too much effort.
[Speaker 2] [2205.78s] Because I'm not saying I mean, obviously, focus attention meditations or open monitoring meditations, which I think probably mindfulness comes under one or other of those different mindfulness techniques are either tend to be either focused attention or open monitoring.
[Speaker 2] [2225.18s] And, you know, they're good.
[Speaker 2] [2226.38s] I mean, fine.
[Speaker 2] [2227.18s] I'm not decrying them at
[Speaker 1] [2228.54s] all.
[Speaker 1] [2229.10s] Right.
[Speaker 2] [2229.42s] It's just that it will take longer.
[Speaker 2] [2231.18s] I mean, it may be that there's a certain point with focus attention where the mind just gets a little tired of, focusing and just lets go, and then the mind is able to slip down to, you know, to deeper levels.
[Speaker 2] [2246.00s] I'm not an an expert on other forms of meditation.
[Speaker 2] [2249.20s] Sure.
[Speaker 2] [2249.84s] I'm curious as to, you know, what the the different mechanics are, but they obviously are effective.
[Speaker 1] [2256.24s] Right.
[Speaker 1] [2256.72s] Right.
[Speaker 1] [2257.04s] And I and again to whatever extent.
[Speaker 1] [2259.04s] Yeah.
[Speaker 1] [2259.20s] I think, I I think we agree.
[Speaker 1] [2262.22s] We're not here to we're not here to say people this is a bad form or that that form doesn't work.
[Speaker 1] [2267.91s] I tell people try different ones because I found everybody's different.
[Speaker 1] [2273.04s] So for some people, focus attention is okay, and, and for other people, you know, TM is easier.
[Speaker 1] [2279.12s] So try and find the one that helps you reach this this, state that we're trying to get to.
[Speaker 1] [2285.28s] I think there's a reason why they're different techniques.
[Speaker 1] [2287.36s] Like, there's different, you know, different religions that help people that guide people hopefully to the same place.
[Speaker 2] [2294.66s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [2294.97s] Absolutely.
[Speaker 2] [2295.45s] Or different diets for people.
[Speaker 2] [2297.22s] I mean, the same diet doesn't necessarily work for every single person.
[Speaker 2] [2301.78s] We're all different, and we have to find our own path.
[Speaker 2] [2304.76s] I mean, I think that's, you know, most people would agree with that.
[Speaker 2] [2308.84s] There's no one path that's absolutely right for every single person.
[Speaker 2] [2315.55s] I can talk about classic meditation and tell you all about it.
[Speaker 2] [2320.91s] Other people will talk about other forms of meditation.
[Speaker 2] [2323.78s] Sure.
[Speaker 2] [2324.18s] Sure.
[Speaker 2] [2325.47s] And we meet in the middle because as you said earlier, we all want the same goal.
[Speaker 2] [2331.47s] We want individuals to be fulfilled, to be at peace, to be happy.
[Speaker 2] [2336.99s] To experience high states of consciousness, to, you know, to to be able to just impact what we call the collective consciousness in a very positive way.
[Speaker 1] [2350.36s] Yeah.
[Speaker 1] [2350.76s] Well, I think that's you know, one of the things I was really fascinated about having this conversation with you, because I remember when I was a a child and I was I was raised Christian, and we were taught to fear other religions.
[Speaker 1] [2362.34s] And one of the criticisms by eastern religions is that they're they're so inward focused.
[Speaker 1] [2367.54s] There's there's selfish.
[Speaker 1] [2368.74s] They're all about the individual.
[Speaker 1] [2371.62s] And what it I think it's gonna be interesting a lot of people now is to hear because a lot of us turn to meditation because we have a problem.
[Speaker 1] [2379.55s] We have stress.
[Speaker 1] [2380.84s] We have high blood pressure.
[Speaker 1] [2382.11s] We have depression.
[Speaker 1] [2383.32s] We have, you know, we have a we have a problem.
[Speaker 1] [2386.36s] And so we're it's it's trying to get something for myself.
[Speaker 1] [2389.41s] But what I think is surprising people is that, wow, I can actually benefit society.
[Speaker 1] [2394.77s] I could have an impact on crime rates.
[Speaker 1] [2396.61s] I can have an impact on drug overdoses.
[Speaker 1] [2399.81s] I think that's really cool that that's coming out of the research that you participated in.
[Speaker 2] [2405.29s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [2406.64s] That's that's, actually, that's a really nice question because even if we are just doing it for ourselves with no thought about society or or anything, and even if we didn't have an impact or much of an impact on society by improving ourselves then we're going to have some impact on those around us.
[Speaker 2] [2428.80s] I mean it's like, you know, a mother who's got 3 children and, you know, she's running around trying to fit in sort of work and getting the children to school and come back and, help them with their after school activities, you know, all the rest of it.
[Speaker 2] [2447.87s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2448.99s] This, you know, that is hugely or can be hugely stressful.
[Speaker 2] [2455.07s] Schedules, time, do this, get that child ready, get that child ready, all the rest of it.
[Speaker 2] [2460.59s] Now if the mother gets very stressed, then it's going to affect the children.
[Speaker 2] [2465.72s] It's going to affect the whole family.
[Speaker 2] [2467.55s] It's going to affect the husband, partner, whatever.
[Speaker 2] [2472.11s] But if the mother has something that allows her just 20 minutes morning evening just to be at peace, to reduce stress, to decrease anxiety, and to feel a little happier inside
[Speaker 1] [2487.21s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2487.53s] Then that's going to help the children.
[Speaker 2] [2489.45s] It's going to help the family.
[Speaker 2] [2492.13s] So even if she's just doing it for herself with no thought of, family or anything sorry, with no thought of society Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2501.33s] But then that's valuable.
[Speaker 2] [2502.68s] That's really valuable.
[Speaker 2] [2503.97s] Oh, yeah.
[Speaker 2] [2504.45s] And, of course, you know, the the added blessing to this is that we can have an effect on, society.
[Speaker 2] [2514.71s] We we do it through collective consciousness.
[Speaker 2] [2516.79s] See, when you asked earlier about the mechanics, I think that the best way to explain this apart from the stone in the pond is the the idea of collective consciousness.
[Speaker 2] [2531.07s] People call it in under different names.
[Speaker 2] [2533.55s] I mean, I've seen it described as collective mind, universal mind, or just mind, you know, society mind or something.
[Speaker 2] [2540.48s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2541.28s] But what it is is that it's the togetherness, the connectedness of all the different consciousnesses of people who, make up a society, any group, a group, a society, or whatever.
[Speaker 2] [2558.74s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2559.94s] It forms a collective consciousness.
[Speaker 2] [2562.74s] And that collective consciousness will have the character of the people who inhabit it.
[Speaker 1] [2571.02s] Yeah.
[Speaker 2] [2571.82s] So, it can be influenced in a positive way.
[Speaker 2] [2578.14s] And when individuals meditate and the mind settles down, they meditate, they're at peace, they feel more happiness, this impacts the collective consciousness.
[Speaker 1] [2592.20s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2592.44s] And that's going to have an effect on the whole group.
[Speaker 2] [2597.50s] Simply at the very, very basic level, the level of being, it's going to affect everybody in that group.
[Speaker 2] [2605.42s] And when you have 1% acting and behaving in a in a more positive, life supporting way, then again, that's going to have a real impact, a real big impact on collective consciousness.
[Speaker 2] [2623.64s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2623.80s] And that's what's to help.
[Speaker 1] [2626.30s] Yeah.
[Speaker 1] [2626.62s] Absolutely.
[Speaker 1] [2627.18s] And I I think it's really interesting.
[Speaker 1] [2628.94s] When you when you shared your example about the mother, meditating twice a day and improving the family, even the most materialistic of us will understand, of course, because her mood's improved.
[Speaker 1] [2640.36s] She's acting better, so the kids are gonna act better, the father's gonna act better, etcetera.
[Speaker 1] [2645.41s] But what's surprising to the materialist is that this spreads out.
[Speaker 1] [2649.97s] These ripples spread out in a way that we can't explain through materialistic explanations.
[Speaker 1] [2656.89s] Right?
[Speaker 1] [2657.61s] How does my meditation lower the crime rate in in my community?
[Speaker 1] [2662.41s] But, you know, a a true scientist will will do the do the work like you've like you've you've you've done.
[Speaker 1] [2669.09s] Right?
[Speaker 1] [2669.81s] And they they've shown it, but because because materialists can't explain the mechanism, they reject the the premise.
[Speaker 2] [2676.05s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [2677.09s] I mean, they they still, regard the the results of the, say, 22 demonstrations as still just mere coincidence or can be explained in other ways.
[Speaker 2] [2692.01s] It's often the case, I think.
[Speaker 2] [2693.61s] I mean, I I'm not personally a scientist, although I'm interested in science.
[Speaker 1] [2698.73s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2699.14s] But, the results often precede the theory that the theory comes later.
[Speaker 2] [2706.94s] You know, a result is noted.
[Speaker 2] [2709.18s] And then gradually over time, the mechanism becomes obvious.
[Speaker 1] [2715.66s] Right.
[Speaker 1] [2716.06s] Right.
[Speaker 1] [2716.62s] Right.
[Speaker 1] [2717.10s] Well, and and and again, scientists, you know, you they can we have ways of of doing statistical analysis.
[Speaker 1] [2723.91s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 1] [2724.74s] And we can tell what's coincidence, and we can tell what's significant, you know, significant.
[Speaker 1] [2729.47s] We have those those methods, but when it comes to stuff like this, they the the the hurdle gets higher.
[Speaker 1] [2735.27s] The bar gets higher.
[Speaker 1] [2736.87s] And I've seen you know, I've studied some there's a little bit at least the science of, and most of these things have cleared the bar many, many times.
[Speaker 1] [2744.55s] You know, precognition, telekinesis, you know, all these things that they've they've done stuff in the lab.
[Speaker 1] [2751.02s] Remote viewing, the government knows it's real.
[Speaker 1] [2753.74s] They've they've used it.
[Speaker 1] [2754.78s] They've they've shown it's real, but still, it it gets it gets it's still secret to most people.
[Speaker 1] [2762.10s] And what I think is really, really interesting right now is almost everyone agrees that the world is, like, not the way we want it to be.
[Speaker 1] [2770.58s] What no matter what side of the political spectrum you're on, we're all agreeing that, you know, there's too much violence.
[Speaker 1] [2777.05s] There's too much separation.
[Speaker 1] [2778.49s] There's too much conflict.
[Speaker 1] [2780.97s] And there's a lot of frustration.
[Speaker 1] [2782.66s] I hear people say, well, there's nothing I can do about it.
[Speaker 1] [2786.01s] And I like to be able to tell people there there is something you can do about it.
[Speaker 1] [2789.93s] And what you're offering with with this book and with the the work you you've done is there's hope.
[Speaker 1] [2795.07s] There's something we can we can literally do about it.
[Speaker 2] [2799.79s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [2800.27s] Absolutely.
[Speaker 2] [2802.91s] I can only recommend that people read my book and and other books, of course, around the same Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2809.26s] Subject and decide for themselves whether this is a real phenomenon.
[Speaker 2] [2816.39s] But all I can say is that the results speak for themselves.
[Speaker 1] [2822.00s] Right.
[Speaker 2] [2822.80s] We can influence our environment.
[Speaker 2] [2827.92s] Yeah.
[Speaker 2] [2831.44s] Yeah.
[Speaker 2] [2831.92s] Definitely.
[Speaker 1] [2832.76s] Now many people listening are gonna have, they've had issues with PTS, post traumatic stress.
[Speaker 2] [2838.43s] Yes.
[Speaker 1] [2839.39s] Substance abuse disorders, we we all are familiar with, whether it's for ourselves or our loved ones.
[Speaker 1] [2844.72s] And I know the David Lynch Foundation, for research has has shown that these techniques could be effective in dealing with those things.
[Speaker 1] [2852.96s] Can can you tell me a little bit about that?
[Speaker 2] [2855.60s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [2857.13s] The David Lynch Foundation was set up to increase the number of, people who had access to transcendental meditation specifically.
[Speaker 1] [2869.76s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [2870.49s] And it's since gone on to have different sections of it like heal the healers or operation wellness and so on.
[Speaker 2] [2879.34s] But it it's a lot of its work now has been done with veterans who I mean, they they see the absolute worst of human life.
[Speaker 1] [2889.76s] Right.
[Speaker 2] [2891.13s] Even if they're not actually involved in a war zone or whatever.
[Speaker 2] [2896.32s] You know, they're still constantly prepared for the fact that they may have to be and that they can face these things.
[Speaker 2] [2905.09s] And of course many of the soldiers, the military rather who, you know, who have been in a war zone.
[Speaker 2] [2913.41s] I mean they come back with nightmares, terrible trauma, stress and often feeling suicidal.
[Speaker 2] [2925.41s] So the David Lynch Foundation, you know, raises money basically, and organizes teaching so that people, the military who are suffering from PTSD and so on, can at least try Transcendental Meditation.
[Speaker 2] [2944.98s] And it has been shown that it it does help a lot of veterans to be able to deal and and be able to recover from these things.
[Speaker 2] [2955.63s] I mean there've been some very remarkable stories.
[Speaker 2] [2959.39s] Some of which I detail I think in my book and certainly in my previous book an antidote to violence.
[Speaker 2] [2969.56s] It doesn't bear thinking about really what the military has to go through.
[Speaker 2] [2974.43s] And anything that can help them is to be welcomed.
[Speaker 2] [2978.76s] So, you know, I just hope that the David Lynch Foundation can can continue to raise enough money to be able to help as many former veterans as possible to Yeah.
[Speaker 2] [2992.14s] To recover and live normal lives.
[Speaker 1] [2994.78s] Well, you know, it's interesting.
[Speaker 1] [2995.90s] As you said that, and you mentioned veterans who have been in in war zones and see things that I don't believe human beings should see, and that there's a reason why they end up with PTSD because that's not normal.
[Speaker 1] [3008.82s] We shouldn't have to see that kind of stuff.
[Speaker 1] [3010.72s] But you also mentioned even veterans who hadn't been in war zones because of the anticipation.
[Speaker 1] [3016.08s] And my mind went to we just had another school shooting, and it doesn't matter when we're recording this, but we just happen to have had one, very recently in in Georgia at this particular moment in time, and I worry about our children.
[Speaker 1] [3030.86s] And I worry about not only the ones involved in school shootings, but the drills that they're going through preparing for school shootings.
[Speaker 1] [3037.82s] And I I I believe that's a form of trauma.
[Speaker 1] [3040.69s] If you're going to school every day thinking that, you know, you might be shot, you've got to practice for this.
[Speaker 1] [3047.15s] So, yeah, I I just kinda I know I don't know if you've done any work with children or looked at anything like that, but I would love to see in our society teaching our children mindfulness techniques so they have those tools when they grow up to be adults.
[Speaker 2] [3062.39s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [3062.86s] I mean, I think that's absolutely right.
[Speaker 2] [3065.74s] I mean, mindfulness techniques, obviously, translational meditation or any form of meditation that can help children to, to be more mature, basically, to be more developed as human beings, to be less stressed, to be less anxious.
[Speaker 2] [3084.91s] I mean, where, transcendental meditation has been interest introduced into schools, then there's been a really big difference between, for instance, even the academic grades go up.
[Speaker 2] [3099.57s] Anxiety goes down, violence in school goes down.
[Speaker 2] [3103.81s] And I'm sure this is the same with other forms of meditation as well, but I, you know, I only know what happens with TM.
[Speaker 2] [3112.11s] And, you know, I I really would like to see I share your desire for every school to be teaching some form of meditation.
[Speaker 2] [3124.11s] Whatever it is, anything that works has got to be good.
[Speaker 2] [3128.43s] And I, you know, I would personally advocate for a translator meditation, but I'm aware that I'm just aware that it's more important that society improves, that children have the best possible start in life, and they're not hampered by violence and gangs and, you know, drugs and everything.
[Speaker 2] [3149.95s] I mean, it's it's a terrible start in life, and I really think schools should be addressing this.
[Speaker 1] [3156.54s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 1] [3157.26s] You know, it's funny as we're talking about this, I'm I'm thinking about, if this if we were doing a drug ad, you know, an ad for for for a for a pharmaceutical, oh, it can help with PTSD, it can help with anxiety, it can help with depression, it can help with blood pressure, it can help with, you know, else blah blah, you know, etcetera, etcetera.
[Speaker 1] [3176.84s] And then then the next question's gotta be, well, what are the side effects?
[Speaker 1] [3180.84s] And it's the one thing that you can do where there are no negative side effects.
[Speaker 1] [3185.48s] There's there's I've never seen any downside to any mindfulness technique at all.
[Speaker 2] [3191.74s] No.
[Speaker 2] [3192.70s] No.
[Speaker 2] [3192.93s] Not at all.
[Speaker 2] [3195.02s] And there shouldn't be.
[Speaker 2] [3196.86s] I mean there shouldn't be.
[Speaker 2] [3198.22s] I mean very occasionally people have come to learn who have, or want to learn who have severe, mental challenges.
[Speaker 2] [3209.03s] Let's put it that way.
[Speaker 2] [3210.07s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [3210.87s] And we always advise anyone to go by the advice of their doctor, you know, and to keep in touch with their doctor, basically.
[Speaker 2] [3221.05s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [3221.69s] That's for their sake.
[Speaker 2] [3223.14s] It's for our sake.
[Speaker 2] [3223.93s] It's for their sake or whatever.
[Speaker 1] [3225.78s] Sure.
[Speaker 2] [3226.97s] As far as I'm aware that there are no side effects from TM.
[Speaker 2] [3232.95s] There are plenty of side benefits.
[Speaker 1] [3234.95s] Right.
[Speaker 1] [3235.35s] Right.
[Speaker 2] [3235.83s] But, you know, no side effects.
[Speaker 1] [3238.55s] And one another thing I wanna address because, you know, because of the society we live in, the way things are right now.
[Speaker 1] [3246.43s] Let's say we wanted to have an initiative to to introduce mindfulness in schools.
[Speaker 1] [3250.91s] Now some people are gonna say, well, that's against my religion.
[Speaker 1] [3254.99s] You're you're you're teaching another you're teaching another religion.
[Speaker 1] [3258.51s] Now you mentioned your background, I believe, was Christianity before you started on your spiritual exploration.
[Speaker 1] [3264.35s] Explain to people the religious or non religious aspects of of of TM.
[Speaker 2] [3271.32s] Okay.
[Speaker 2] [3271.80s] Well, TM is not religion.
[Speaker 2] [3274.92s] It has no dogma attached to it.
[Speaker 2] [3278.53s] There are no dos and don'ts.
[Speaker 2] [3280.44s] I mean, we teach people the technique and, hope that they they follow the the instructions.
[Speaker 2] [3287.04s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [3287.92s] People can just go away, and we need never see them again once they've learned.
[Speaker 2] [3293.28s] We don't keep tabs on people.
[Speaker 2] [3297.12s] You know, it's just a simple natural innocent technique, that can be, practiced by anyone of any religion.
[Speaker 2] [3307.16s] And and, you know, I mean, there are, there's at least 1 or 2 schools in Thailand, which is a Buddhist nation, who have introduced translated meditation alongside their their Buddhist religion.
[Speaker 2] [3323.39s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [3324.51s] And the same thing I think in the west with Christian, you know, Christian countries.
[Speaker 2] [3331.70s] Schools in the UK, schools in the US, a lot of schools in South America are very strongly, Christian part of the world.
[Speaker 2] [3341.38s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [3342.09s] Have introduced Transcendental Meditation.
[Speaker 2] [3345.70s] Very occasionally, there are people who there are Christians maybe who do object, but it's less and less now because they see the results.
[Speaker 2] [3357.40s] And the results, as I say, as far as children are concerned, give children the best possible start in life.
[Speaker 2] [3363.68s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [3364.72s] I
[Speaker 1] [3364.80s] love what you said earlier about, doing your meditation and then praying.
[Speaker 1] [3370.07s] Right?
[Speaker 1] [3370.39s] There's there's no reason why you can't pray what in every particular way you wanna do after you do your your mindfulness.
[Speaker 1] [3377.09s] You're settling.
[Speaker 1] [3378.53s] Yes.
[Speaker 1] [3379.17s] I think that's a I think it's a wonderful way to go, and it's it's I could tell a quick story.
[Speaker 1] [3383.89s] People have listened to me have heard this before.
[Speaker 1] [3386.03s] But when I first started, I was going to this evangelical church, and I would go to church on Sunday morning, and I would go to a yoga class afterwards.
[Speaker 1] [3395.22s] And one of my friends is like, oh, you can't you can't do yoga.
[Speaker 1] [3399.14s] That's that's bad.
[Speaker 1] [3400.03s] You're opening up your mind.
[Speaker 1] [3401.30s] And if you open up your mind, you never know what's gonna come in.
[Speaker 1] [3404.31s] You know?
[Speaker 1] [3405.19s] Demons could come into your mind.
[Speaker 1] [3406.47s] And I said, why couldn't good things come into my mind?
[Speaker 1] [3409.43s] Why couldn't the holy spirit enter my mind?
[Speaker 1] [3411.51s] And I get the same feeling of connectedness when I'm in church and having that experience as I do when I'm in the yoga studio and I have that experience.
[Speaker 1] [3420.78s] It's the same experience.
[Speaker 2] [3423.34s] Yes.
[Speaker 2] [3423.89s] I mean, it's, you know, both, innocent practices that people can take or leave.
[Speaker 2] [3430.55s] I mean, go into it as far as they want.
[Speaker 2] [3433.03s] I mean, the thing with yoga is many people just go in because they want to be fitter.
[Speaker 2] [3437.35s] Mhmm.
[Speaker 2] [3437.75s] Or they, you know, they they want to, they want to be calmer too.
[Speaker 2] [3442.67s] They feel it's going to benefit them in different ways.
[Speaker 2] [3446.19s] Nobody has to believe in the yoga tradition.
[Speaker 2] [3450.51s] In order to practice yoga, they just go to their local town hall or school or whatever, learn yoga, come back, go to church on Sunday.
[Speaker 2] [3458.85s] You know, there's there's no conflict.
[Speaker 2] [3461.89s] And I like to think it's the same with transcendental meditation that, you know, that there is no conflict, really.
[Speaker 2] [3470.46s] If people want to see a conflict, they may find 1, but it's not there, from the side of the technique or from our side.
[Speaker 1] [3479.03s] Right.
[Speaker 1] [3479.59s] Right.
[Speaker 1] [3479.98s] Well, I I I encourage people when it comes to things, try it.
[Speaker 1] [3484.70s] You know, try it and see how it works for you.
[Speaker 1] [3488.46s] It there's the no.
[Speaker 1] [3489.74s] That's like I said, there's really there's no there's no downside to it.
[Speaker 1] [3493.74s] Well, Patricia, we're coming to the end of our time.
[Speaker 1] [3497.39s] I wanna thank you for the conversation today.
[Speaker 1] [3500.66s] I know in in the introduction, I mentioned your earlier book, but let's talk about the books that you have and tell people if they wanna reach out to you, if there's a way that anybody can can get in contact with you.
[Speaker 2] [3510.96s] Okay.
[Speaker 2] [3514.16s] So both books are available on Amazon.
[Speaker 2] [3518.16s] The the oldest book is An Antidote to Violence.
[Speaker 2] [3522.00s] I wrote it actually with another author, Barry Smith.
[Speaker 2] [3526.11s] And the my latest book, Creating a Happy World, is also available on Amazon.
[Speaker 2] [3533.94s] I do have a website.
[Speaker 2] [3535.78s] It's, peaceful dash worlds dotcom.
[Speaker 2] [3540.89s] And, I put worlds with an s.
[Speaker 2] [3544.33s] So it's not just peaceful worlds, it's peaceful worlds so that all worlds, worlds within worlds, different communities, can feel part of that.
[Speaker 1] [3552.17s] Yeah.
[Speaker 2] [3553.05s] And, so peaceful dash worlds.com.
[Speaker 2] [3557.11s] My books are on that.
[Speaker 2] [3558.70s] And there's also a link from that to Amazon as well so they can, you know, they can look it up and buy it if they want.
[Speaker 2] [3567.31s] And I would like to leave everybody with just a phrase from the Bhagavad Gita.
[Speaker 1] [3572.19s] Awesome.
[Speaker 1] [3572.67s] Yeah.
[Speaker 2] [3572.91s] It says, for one without peace, how can there be happiness?
[Speaker 2] [3577.55s] So peace is very important.
[Speaker 2] [3580.35s] So we allow ourselves to become more peaceful.
[Speaker 2] [3584.68s] We experience more happiness, and that enables us to impact our environment.
[Speaker 1] [3595.10s] Well, yeah, I I think it's great.
[Speaker 1] [3596.86s] And, again, we can impact our environment in very real ways.
[Speaker 1] [3600.78s] You know?
[Speaker 1] [3601.42s] Sometimes people think, okay.
[Speaker 1] [3603.26s] Well, just praying doesn't do anything.
[Speaker 1] [3605.50s] Just wishful thinking doesn't do anything.
[Speaker 1] [3608.34s] It absolutely does.
[Speaker 1] [3609.70s] Your attitude matters, and and we can change the world.
[Speaker 1] [3612.34s] So thanks for sharing that with us today.
[Speaker 2] [3615.14s] Thank you, Brian.
[Speaker 2] [3616.11s] Thank you for inviting me on.
[Speaker 2] [3617.78s] I enjoy Alright.
[Speaker 1] [3619.07s] Enjoy the rest of your day.
[Speaker 2] [3620.66s] Okay.
[Speaker 2] [3621.07s] Thank you.
[Speaker 2] [3621.63s] Bye.