Whitney Allen's Inspiring Journey: From Grief To Finding Purpose After Loss Of Spouse EP 361

In this episode, Brian Smith welcomes Whitney Lynn Allen to "Grief to Growth" for a powerful discussion about transforming grief into growth. Whitney shares her journey from experiencing the tragic loss of her husband, Ryan, to becoming a beacon of hope as a certified grief educator and best-selling author.

Key Topics Discussed:
- Whitney's personal story of loss and how it reshaped her life and career.
- The challenges and transformations of becoming a grief educator.
- The impact of grief on personal identity and future aspirations.
- Insights from Whitney's book, "Running in Trauma Stilettos."

Featured Guest:
Whitney Lynn Allen, Certified Grief Educator and Author
- Learn more about Whitney and her work at [Whitney's Website](http://www.whitneylynnallen.com)
- Follow Whitney on Instagram: [@WhitneyLynnAllen](http://instagram.com/whitneylynnallen)

Join The Conversation:
https://grief2growth.circle.so/c/podcast-chat/bouncing-back-after-losing-a-spouse

You've been listening. You're doing the work. But there's still this feeling that you're circling the same place.

Maybe you've thought about working with me one-on-one. Maybe something's held you back. 

I get that. And I want you to know there's still a place for you.

All of it, pay what you want. You decide what it's worth. Nobody gets turned away because of money.

https://grief2g

Want to go deeper? My Substack is where I share solo essays on grief, consciousness, and continuing bonds — thoughts that don't always make it into the podcast. It's also home to a community of listeners who get it, because they're living it too. Free to subscribe. Find it at substack.com/grief2growth.

I've been studying Near Death Experiences for many years now. I am 100% convinced they are real. In this short, free ebook, I not only explain why I believe NDEs are real, I share some of the universal secrets brought back by people who have had them.

https://www.grief2growth.com/ndelessons

Transcript

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Brian Smith: 1:15

Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that causes the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed we've been planted, and having been planted, would grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes, open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth. And I am your host, Brian Smith. Hey there, this is Brian back with another episode of grief to growth and like to say in the heart of every shadow, there's always a glimmer of light. There's always a testament to the resilience of the human spirit, even in the face of loss. So today in the grief to growth cat podcast, we're going to bridge the realms of the scene in the unseen, exploring the profound journey from sorrow to Serenity. So welcome back. If you've had been here before, and anybody that's new, my name is Brian Smith, and I'm your host. Today we're going to be with Whitney Lynn Allen, and what he is a beacon of hope and transformation for those who who are adrift in a sea of grief. A her life took an unexpected turn when tragedy struck her family, leading her from the courtroom to the sacred space of healing and advocacy. She's a dedicated, devoted mother dedicated also, I'm sure, to Jackson and Leo and has she's faced the unimaginable loss of her husband, Ryan. Her journey is a testament to the power of love and the indomitable strength of the human spirit. So he's the author of the Amazon bestseller running in trauma stilettos. And she's channeled her pain into purpose, offering solace and guidance as a certified grief educator. So with that, I'd like to welcome degree to growth. Whitney Lynn Allen.

Whitney Allen: 3:14

Thank you so much for having me.

Brian Smith: 3:16

Yeah, I'm looking forward to speak with you today. Whitney. And I first I want to say I'm sorry for the loss of your, your husband, and that unimaginable tragedy.

Whitney Allen: 3:26

Thank you. I really appreciate that.

Brian Smith: 3:29

So I'd like to start off by letting you tell us about Ryan.

Whitney Allen: 3:34

Okay. Um, you know, it's so funny, like, I do a lot of these podcasts. And usually people don't really ask that a lot with so it's, um, I love sharing about him. So my late husband, Ryan, he, he was really larger than life. He loved to tell jokes and tell stories. He made everybody laugh. He was the best dad to our son Jackson, who was three at the time of his accident. And he was so excited to be a dad to our youngest son, Leo. But unfortunately, he has accident happened when I was 26 weeks pregnant. So he didn't really get to experience Lea at all. But he was so ambitious. He was he started the canine unit at his police department in 2019, or 2018. You know, after so many years of hearing that it would never happen. He just kept trying. And he did end up founding his his police, police department's first canine unit and he did so well. And he became so amazing with what he did with his canine Louis and watching him be able to live out his dream before everything fell apart is you know, it was one of my greatest joys. So I'm so glad he got to do that. But he Ryan love life. He just was the epitome of somebody that didn't leave anything on the table. He just did everything right. Honestly, like he just loved life so much.

Brian Smith: 5:20

Yeah, well, thanks for sharing him with us. And I know he passed in 2022 is that right? Yeah. And how old was he at the time? He was 3535 Wow, it's so young. So tell me what happened with Ryan.

Whitney Allen: 5:34

I guess the you know, Heba very long story short, October 14 2021. Ryan was on the way home from the gym. He got stung by a bee at some point along his his journey from the gym to home. I'm not really sure the details of that. And when he got home, he went into anaphylaxis with no known allergy to bees at all. He actually even had been stung many times before, and he had such a severe reaction that it caused his heart to stop Um, which then cause an anoxic brain injury, which happens when somebody is deprived of oxygen to their brain for an extended period of time.

Brian Smith: 6:26

Yeah, wow, that's I'm sorry, that sounds, I just just again, it's almost unimaginable to think that you know, this healthy young person with no known allergies, you know, to have that sudden sudden transition. So I don't even know what to ask you next, what was it? What When did you when did you determine when did you realize that you weren't going to be able to bring them home.

Whitney Allen: 6:52

So after his accident, he, I mean, honestly, it was, it was kind of a miracle, he even was able to be revived. So that kind of started the clock on, you know, he was in the ICU for more than two months, at a neuro ICU and in Philadelphia. And he was in a coma and then transitioned into like a vegetative state. But he was able to wean off the ventilator, which was another miracle. And then he was in and out of rehab and hospitals in the ER, over like a five month, six month period. And there became a time, which is like two years now, like in February of 2022, where his doctors basically told us that there was no chance of in any meaningful recovery, just looking at his imaging of his brain. So at that point, you know, we had, we had to make the decision whether we wanted to bring Ryan home on like full care, admit him to a nursing home, or put him on hospice or palliative care. And, honestly, they're unfortunately, like, to me, I felt like there was only one reasonable option that I feel, like really honored who Ryan was. And that was to, like, allow him to pass and not be, you know, kind of trapped in his body because he really couldn't do anything. So myself, my mother in law, my sister in law, we all decided together, that the best thing for Ryan was to place him on hospice you know, what that looks like for somebody with a brain injury is that you withdrawal all life sustaining care. So you take away hydration and and feeding that he had, he had a feeding tube, and you let you know, we let him pass naturally. And so he died on April 7 2020. To

Brian Smith: 9:05

your age in how long? Have you guys been married at that time?

Whitney Allen: 9:09

We had just celebrated two days before his accident, our eight year wedding anniversary, we were together 10 years, 10 years,

Brian Smith: 9:18

I would imagine that you hadn't discussed anything like, you know, payload of care or, you know, power of attorneys or that kind of stuff at that age. So how making those decisions? It sounds like your family and his mother were involved and helped you with that.

Whitney Allen: 9:37

Yeah, I mean, we, we honestly didn't have those conversations. Like I wish now I would have pushed us to have those conversations. I think when you're young and you're in the prime of your life, it's, you know, you don't want to think about those things. You know, he's he was a police officer. So he always in the back of his mind, like, he always understood like, he may not come home. But we just didn't we talked about that, but didn't talk about like, what if I survive, but I'm not able to make decisions for myself. So that was something that I had to deal with, unfortunately. And I had to make those decisions based on what I thought was right for Ryan at the time.

Brian Smith: 10:26

Yeah, so making those decisions. A lot of times when when we lose someone and in any event in any way there's there's guilt that comes along with that there's there's regret or remorse. Have you experienced any of that? Um,

Whitney Allen: 10:43

you know, I, I work with clients now as a grief educator, group coach, and, you know, that's, that's something that, you know, a lot of my clients deal with. I felt like I didn't have a lot of guilt. Fortunately, because I just knew Ryan so well and I knew what he would want and wouldn't want. I almost felt more guilt for like not letting him pass like in the ICU because we do did have the decision like to take him off of life support when he was there? And I feel like it would have enabled him not to suffer as much as he did with the hospitals and everything. But I, you know, again, I made the best decision with the information I had at the time, and I've moved past, you know, the stage where I carry guilt, because I did the best I could. Yeah.

Brian Smith: 11:42

And the reason I asked you that question is because it I'm sure you've done this work with clients, as you as you kind of alluded to, almost every client, I've worked with some sort of guilt, and it doesn't matter how our loved ones pass. So if we decide, you know, for example, if you'd said, okay, they're very early on, we're going to let him go now, Ben, there's there could be guilt about like, I shouldn't have let him go that soon, we should have fought harder. But if you if you keep him the person around longer than you feel guilty that you've made them suffer. So I just like to let people that are listening. Now. These are the types of things we have to work through. When when we have we're faced with these types of decisions. Yeah,

Whitney Allen: 12:22

absolutely. And you're right, if I, if I hadn't seen, like, played it out to see if he would have recovered, I would have, you know, felt guilty for, you know, kind of, quote unquote, throwing in the towel like too soon. So, you know, I think, I think, like six months, and we were told he wouldn't recover. Like I knew at that time, like we we had done everything we could.

Brian Smith: 12:48

Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you did. And you said we do the best we can with what we know at the time. Yeah. So that's, that's something that as grief educators, we have to help our clients sometimes get to that point where they they understand that? Yeah, exactly. So at the time, when Brian passed, I assume you weren't a grief educator at that point.

Whitney Allen: 13:10

No, no, not at all.

Brian Smith: 13:12

What were you doing at that time?

Whitney Allen: 13:15

Well, after Ryan's accident happened, I didn't work. I couldn't work because we were in and out of hospitals. I took a leave. And then I also had a baby. So I was on maternity leave. So I was a lawyer in my life before Ryan's accident. And then there came a point after Ryan died, where I could have gone back to law. But it just didn't feel right. And authentic to the person I had become, you know, molded by grief and loss and trauma. I just, I couldn't see myself going back.

Brian Smith: 13:56

Did you feel like you somehow became a different person from the grief and the trauma?

Whitney Allen: 14:02

Oh, completely different person? I think. I don't think anybody comes out of that kind of loss unchanged in almost like every way possible.

Brian Smith: 14:14

Yeah. So what was the transformation? Like for you? How, how were you different? How are you different?

Whitney Allen: 14:21

That's a good question. I mean, just because we're talking about careers, like for me, I just felt like if I wasn't doing something I loved and was passionate about, and that like, kind of, like, lit my heart on fire everyday, like, life is way too short to, to do that then. So although I traded a very stable career for something very unknown, like that was worth it to me because I didn't want to, like waste my life in, you know, like an office from nine to five for like, another 40 years. Like, I just couldn't see myself doing that. So that was one of the ways I changed just like being able to take leaps of faith. Even though it was scary, because I know life is so like, I know, like, I knew life was short before, but now I truly intimately know what that means. You know, I It has made me appreciate the people in my life so much more and just like little things in life. I mean, just like being able to spend time with my sons or like a sunrise or sunset just like has so much more deeper meaning to me now. I think it changes your perspective, like spiritually, in terms of like, where do we go after we die? And I feel now like I'm so sure that there is like an another part of life after our lives on earth. And I just, you know, I feel like Ryan stuff has made me truly know that that is what happens.

Brian Smith: 16:02

So what were your thoughts, if any on where we go after we die before Ryan's accident.

Whitney Allen: 16:11

I always believed in heaven and God and all that but I feel like it until I lost Ryan, I didn't feel it. Like I didn't feel like that connection. Because I never lost someone so close to me. But now I just like feel that connection between, like me and him that somewhere else, if that makes sense. Yeah.

Brian Smith: 17:40

Yeah. Makes complete sense. So yeah, that I think that's there's seems to be a point in a lot of our lives where something comes along and wakes us up, right? We sit we think, Okay, well, yeah, I believe in heaven or stuff. But it's kind of a in the back of your mind. And someday I'll face that in the very distant future. But I would imagine when Ryan paths and was no longer with you physically, it forces you to really dig deep to maintain that relationship.

Whitney Allen: 18:11

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I think part of how we survive after this kind of loss is the continuing connection with our person and continuing that relationship, although it's, it's, obviously is not the same and it's not what we want, but I think that's how we survive.

Brian Smith: 18:34

So Jackson, at the time, when was just about three, when when Ryan passed,

Whitney Allen: 18:41

he was for like, around three and a half, like a little more than three and a half when his accident happened.

Brian Smith: 18:47

Okay. And how he was he coped with with his father not being there.

Whitney Allen: 18:54

Yeah, Jackson, um, I mean, he is such a brave like, resilient little boy, kids are so amazing. So he's doing really well, I'm in the beginning, it was really hard, because he went from, like, a, just a normal life, to, you know, his mom being the only one home and having to go to the hospital every day, and like less time with me and me being exhausted all the time and crying all the time, and for and not having his dad around. So there was a time period where there was a lot of like, behavioral turmoil with him in the beginning stages, but I'm really grateful that he's doing so much better now.

Brian Smith: 19:38

Yeah, we just said kids are really resilient. And at that age, I don't even know how much they understand what what death is. So I didn't know how he would deal with with that. So when you you said you've decided, as far as going back, and being a lawyer, I guess, that just didn't really feel like something you wanted to do. So I did decide to become a grief educator.

Whitney Allen: 20:06

I, you know, the best way I can describe it is I, I knew from experiencing such a tremendous loss that we don't talk about this stuff enough. We don't educate people enough, there's not enough support. I mean, I had trouble finding, like a grief therapist to even help me like, through my own grief. So I wanted to become somebody that I needed when I was going through the worst days of my life, because I know how much it's needed and how much like we just don't have enough resources. So I mean, that's really why I wanted to become a grief educator. And my grief therapist actually recommended David Kessler's course, because she felt like the, you know, would have really good information. And she liked, she looked at like the website, and she said, you know, she had agreed with the curriculum. So that's kind of why I did that.

Brian Smith: 21:10

So there, you know, I'm sure people have heard of grief Counselors, and Therapists, how is it grief educator different?

Whitney Allen: 21:19

I mean, we're different, because, you know, we're not licensed therapists or counselors, whereas, you know, people that are licensed, they have to go through a lot of training in school. You know, a grief coach, we like all I do is work with people in grief. Whereas like a therapist or counselor, works with people who are going through a lot of different life transitions and, you know, difficulties or struggles. You know, as a grief coach or educator, I get to kind of pull my own personal experience and use that to help clients whereas, you know, there's like ethical boundaries. When you're a therapist or counselor where you're not really supposed to tell your clients about your own personal story, which I feel like that's like one of the most powerful things I do is like be able to relate to my clients on that very personal level.

Brian Smith: 22:12

Yeah, I think that's absolutely true. And I find that almost every client that I have is either been to a grief counselor or maybe sometimes they're even still Going to grief counselor but they find something missing. And it's that personal connection that that thing that's like, they want to understand that you know what they're going through?

Whitney Allen: 22:31

Yeah, that's exactly been my experience, like people either come to me intuitively knowing that. And they're like I want I want to work with somebody that knows exactly what I'm experiencing. I just don't want to be told, like, Oh, I understand. And you actually don't. Or they come to me because, like a lot of therapists, and therapists and counselors, they get very little training on how to help people through grief, specifically, unless there's, you know, unless they're specifically agree, counselor or therapist.

Brian Smith: 23:06

Yeah, I noticed was really interesting. When I was going, I went to David castles program also. And when I was going through it, there were so many grief count, or traditional therapists, nurses, doctors, etc, that were going through the program, because they didn't get a lot of training on grief in their in their formal education.

Whitney Allen: 23:23

Yeah, exactly. You know, and it's amazing, like some of my clients that come to me, and they tell me, some of the advice that their therapists give them. And like, I think therapists are amazing. But sometimes the, what they say about grief is just like, it's just not helpful. Unfortunately,

Brian Smith: 23:46

yeah, well, I think, well, I know, the medical industry still treats grief as a disease, it's something to be gotten over is something to be cured or to be healed,

Whitney Allen: 23:55

right? Or like put be, you know, like something that you can put away for a little bit. I just got off like a call with a client. And she was describing like, her, somebody she worked with previously had told her to just like, put away her grief until 430. And she could take it out. And she's like, that's, I can't do that. Like that. I don't understand what that means. And, you know, and she's right, because grief, there's no, like, you can't just like put away grief for a time period, you have to learn how to manage it and live with it. Because it's not something that you can extinguish or, like, throw away or put away. It's like, you have to carry it forever.

Brian Smith: 24:37

Yeah, so I have to say, I'm just truly amazed by your resiliency. I mean, that's it's been still less than two years since since Ryan passed. At what point in time did you decide? Okay, I know, you said you could go back to being a lawyer. It's a big switch from like that to I'm going to help other people with this. So when was that? How long has it been since you said you made that decision?

Whitney Allen: 25:05

Ah, it's been. I think I made that decision, like the summer after Ryan died. So it's been like more than two years since I made that decision. But I made the decision for the grief not to consume me when the day that Ryan died, because I realized, like, how easily it could I could be swallowed up by all of this and kind of use it almost as like an excuse not to live my life. In like a joyful, purposeful, like fulfilling way. Because I think that's what a lot of people do. It's just like, they lose their person or they, they go through a tragedy, and they just they use it as an excuse to just throw in the towel and be like, Well, my person died. So I get to be unhappy the rest of my life, but like, that's not that happiness is a choice. But you can decide, like, do I want to try to live my life in a really good way? And like, what does that look like now?

Brian Smith: 26:05

Yeah, well, you know, there is no timeline for grief, as you know. But we typically we see kind of things where people it takes a while to get to the point of, of committing to even trying to find joy again. Yeah, because if you notice what like when you talk to clients, early on, you mentioned joy or purpose. What's their response?

Whitney Allen: 26:27

though? I can't even imagine that right now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I say, That's reasonable. But like, do you have hope? Like, do you because the clients that I can help are the people that come to me and they're like, I'm miserable. I have no hope for the future. Like I, you know, I don't want to try. And, you know, the people that just like, have no hope or like, can't even. And I'm not even asking them to imagine their future because that's impossible, but like, do you just have like an inkling of hope? Like, that's all I look for. Right? And I know that if they have some sort of hope, then like, I'm able to help them. But you have to want to help yourself. Like I can't do that for people.

Brian Smith: 27:15

Yeah, I think that's a really good point. I've been fortunate I've only had one. prospect, I would say nautical. I was I was like that, and this person, they would call me, they would email me. And all they want to do was talk about the way that their husband had passed it. And they were like, he was in the hospital. And they said they had been, you know, they killed him and what it and I, you could just tell this person had no hope. And, you know, even listen, they were just just, you know, talking the whole time. So there are those people that you said, we, we can't help with like to help we can't we you have to be able to do something for yourself.

Whitney Allen: 27:52

Yeah, exactly. And it just might, you know, that might take a little bit for them to get there. You know, it could be like, they reached rock bottom, and they know, like, I could stay on this path. Or I could try to find the light, even if I don't know what that looks like right now. But, you know, I think people take a different amount of time to get there.

Brian Smith: 28:16

Yeah. Tell me about your book. First of all, talk about the title of your book. Yeah.

Whitney Allen: 28:22

Um, so my book, my first book running and traumas, stilettos, you know, the title came to me because I just had this imagery of because I was in the hospitals all the time with Ryan like, running through the court or in stilettos, because that just seems super uncomfortable. And just like, it just seemed like an impossible thing to do, which is, like how I felt like I was living during that time. So I just felt like that was a powerful image. So that's kind of where the title came from.

Brian Smith: 28:57

Tell me about the book itself.

Whitney Allen: 29:00

Yeah, so the book itself is really, you know, it chronicles what happened? Like Brian's accident? I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to switch my out of my ear pods. Can you hear me? Okay. So it chronicles after Ryan's accident, and then up until the time of his death, that kind of everything that happens in between. And then also, you know, our life in the before and our love story. And, you know, and at the end, you know, I start having like seeing that hope and seeing the light, even though I don't know what my life is going to look like. It's just, you know, me, just having hoped that I do have a future after this tremendous loss.

Brian Smith: 29:52

Yeah, I think that was always talked about earlier, that's a really important thing is having that hope. And that's one thing that your story does, or can do for people that are early in that phase we talked about. I was just talking with someone this morning, who, whose son passed away in December, and we're recording this in February. So it's been like eight weeks. And, and this person was asking me like, so when does it get back? I was telling him it gets better was like, well, when does it get better? Yeah. I'm like, well, it takes a while. You know, it does. And I hate to say that to people, but it does. It's a it's a process. Yeah,

Whitney Allen: 30:31

yeah. I mean, it takes a really long time to start. Well, first, like just to get out or like a survival mode. Like we're, you're just kind of going through the motions on autopilot. Like, that takes a long time. And then you're kind of in that really raw state of grief, where you're just in all of these intense emotions, and then you have to get through that stage. And then, you know, and then you're coming out of that, like survival, really acute stage of grief. And then you're like, what is what the heck does my like life look like? Now? What do I want it to look like? So it's, you know, and then becoming comfortable in the new life that you're building. And it's like, people think it's just like, once you start feeling better than it's like, you'll feel better forever, but it's just, it's, it's a roller coaster, and you just have to learn to kind of ride the waves a bit better and with more grace and ease, because that's all we can do. We can't eliminate the waves.

Brian Smith: 31:34

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So when you're working with clients, what what type of process do you take them through in terms of dealing with their grief?

Whitney Allen: 31:44

Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, you know, that really depends on where, where people are in their grief. Like, for example, if somebody comes to me, and they're more kind of like, perseverating on like, what their trauma and what has happened. Like, obviously, there are things that we have to process before we start kind of like, focusing on like, the future stuff, or even the present stuff. But I first just like the focus on like, let's, if you're suffering in any areas, like whether that's sleep or not eating right, or, you know, you're just feeling like you're having ruminations, like, let's try to focus on those first. So we can even start like the grief work, because if you're suffering in an area we can't even touch, like the processing part. And, you know, so it's like, it's really so individual based on the needs of each client.

Brian Smith: 32:42

So I know, You've, you've turned your your pain into purpose. Have you seen? Have you had any clients examples where they've been able to turn around and taking their grief and turns it into something?

Whitney Allen: 32:55

Oh, yeah, so many of my clients, you know, that I work with, and it's like, purpose can look different for everybody. I mean, I have some clients where they, they find purpose, they lose their husband more than like, they were just about to retire. So they find their purpose, like their grandkids, and you know, what that looks like, or their children or their grandkids, or the younger widows that I work with, like, they, you know, they find purpose and other things like they might start helping other young widows in their community. Or they feel like, you know, maybe the job that they have right now isn't something they want to do forever. So they start exploring their options. So, again, it's so individual, but I think, you know, purpose looks different on everyone.

Brian Smith: 33:42

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And people just kind of set or a different phases of their life and different things, but it's just finding whatever it is that works for you, I guess, to look forward to. Yeah,

Whitney Allen: 33:56

exactly. You have to, it takes a while to figure out, you know, you know, what life looks like without your person. And that takes a lot of experimenting, it takes a lot of discomfort. It takes a lot of pushing yourself outside your comfort zone, because even within grief, I mean, grief becomes comfortable at a point. Like the pain of it, or even the guilt of it, because it keeps you from moving forward, which is scarier sometimes than like the known grief that you're feeling. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 34:28

that's a good point. Yeah, a lot of times I've heard people when they start to, I hate the word heal, because grief has done to disease. But when they start to get to that point where they're feeling a little bit better, they're not feeling the pain as intensely, then the guilt will set in or the fear the fear of, okay, I can't give us up because it's become so comfortable to me.

Whitney Allen: 34:50

Yeah, it does their I think their emotions and energy that we hold that, you know, it serves a purpose for different seasons of our grief. But then we also have to learn to let go as we're moving forward, because we can't take those with us. Yeah.

Brian Smith: 35:08

So you mentioned earlier that you said I now I know that we go on, after, after we after we pass. So what is your knowing come from? How do you know?

Whitney Allen: 35:22

I think it's more of like a gut feeling and intuition. Like being able to, like feel a presence that really isn't like, I can't see it, but I can feel it. I mean, isn't that just like, what hope is and like, it's just, even without any evidence, it's like, we feel something. So it's just a knowing without being able to see it, or even understand but feeling it. You know, and I believe that our loved ones can send us signs from wherever they are. And they're just some things that like have happened that I just can't explain. And I can only explain it through the fact that, you know, there's something out there that I can't understand right now.

Brian Smith: 36:13

So you've had some science from Ryan? Oh, so

Whitney Allen: 36:16

many. Yeah, I mean, I think when we're open to these things, they they come to us a little bit easier. You know, his sign like that he shows me is like rainbows are ones like Angel numbers. And I mean, I have seen like the most magnificent rainbows since he died. I mean, I've never seen anything like it are just like colors in the sky that have no explanation like they're not rainbows, but they're just colors, which I've never seen in my entire life before he passed away and um, so I don't know I mean, maybe it's just coincidence. I don't know if I even believe in coincidences anymore.

Brian Smith: 36:57

But I don't I don't believe in coincidences anymore. I know they're we call them synchronicities. Right they're they're things that that time are timed up that would have no reasonable explanation and I've had crazy synchronicities so I don't use the word coincidence coincidence anymore.

Whitney Allen: 37:15

Yeah, I I resonate with that.

Brian Smith: 37:19

So going for or with your with your kids. I'm wondering, how do you how do you talk to them about Ryan? Or what does that? How do you maintain the relationship? You know, when you lose someone, so when the kids are so young? Have you thought about that? Or what are your thoughts on that?

Whitney Allen: 37:40

Yeah, I think intuitively, it's just, I let them lead. And, you know, my, the youngest one, it's so hard because he's not like, he's not even old enough to really, like, be able to start processing some of this stuff. But my oldest son who knew Ryan, you know, like, until he was like, four years old, when Ryan passed, um, you know, for him, if he like talks about Ryan, I just encourage it, I make him feel like witnessed and whatever he's talking about, and just say no, like, I love when you talk about Daddy, you know, you can always talk to me about him. I love hearing stories that you tell me, and just, you know, keeping an open dialogue. You know, I don't feel the pressure to have to, like, force any conversations on him. It's like it just I like when things come up authentically. And they do. I mean, there are things that happen in Jackson, my son will be like, Oh, my daddy did that with me. And I'll just acknowledge it. And I'll, you know, see if he wants to talk more about it. And like, that's just, I feel like, in all things, I let him lead.

Brian Smith: 38:55

Yeah, I think that's, that's a great way to go about it. And a lot of times, you know, little kids, I especially, I'm just wondering what because it's age, sometimes I'll actually see the person in spirit. So I don't know if you had any experience of that.

Whitney Allen: 39:08

Yeah, I think there was one like a couple times where Jackson told me that, that his daddy was playing with him. But I think Leo sees Ryan, like, actually sees him, but he can't really like tell me because he's too little. But he, you know, there's pictures of Ryan everywhere, but I don't like maybe everyday say, oh, that's daddy, like I don't, you know, he's just he's there. But like, life gets in the way. You're not necessarily pointing at pictures all the time saying like, Oh, that's funny. But he knows like, he sees pictures of Ryan and says, That's daddy. Like he knows, which is like, so crazy to me. Yeah.

Brian Smith: 39:50

Yeah. So as far as being a grief educator, this seems like something you think you want to do? Are? Obviously you're you're feeling like you're feeling that this is your purpose now, I guess. Yeah,

Whitney Allen: 40:04

I think for right now, I love working with people one on one. You know, right now, it's like, I have, like a full time group coach, like, that's what I do most of the time, like, during my day, you know, it might change in the future in terms of like, how many, like one on one sessions I have, and my help might transform into different things. But for right now, I'm really enjoying what I'm doing.

Brian Smith: 40:32

Yeah, well, you're, you're doing great work, you're doing a great thing that's really needed. And no, I think lifetimes, again, people want to talk to people that have suffered a similar type of loss. So I work with a lot of parents who have lost children, I'd imagine you probably attract a lot of a lot of widows.

Whitney Allen: 40:51

Yeah. So I mean, I'm mostly there are some people that reach out to me, that have had other losses, but I'm, and I do work with them. But mostly it's widows that were reached out to me and widows who I work with, just because I think, you know, when you know exactly what someone's been through, which is that connection is really powerful.

Brian Smith: 41:12

Yes, absolutely. So, anything else you'd like to share with us today? Um,

Whitney Allen: 41:20

no, not really. I you know, I just, you know, if anyone is is out there, they're listening to this and they're struggling right now. I just want them you know, it does. I know it feels heavy right now. But just to hold on to hope that one day it won't be so heavy, even though you don't have any evidence of that. I'm I am giving you the evidence today that that's possible for you.

Brian Smith: 41:43

Yeah. Well, you are the evidence. You are the evidence. I will say when in the early stages of after my daughter passed away and I felt I couldn't get any better. Talking to other parents and seeing other parents who were I can't believe it's going to be nine years for me now in June. I couldn't even imagine nine years but seeing people that weren't nine or 10 years, let me know it was possible. Yeah.

Whitney Allen: 42:10

Yeah. And that's, I mean, that is the best that you can do when you are so like in the darkness of a loss is just like seeing and other people that have walked that path, and they're like giving you the light at that point. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 42:28

exactly. Exactly. And you talked about hope earlier. And I will, I will tell clients sometimes just like, well, let me let me hold the hope for you for right now. And if you can, if you can just let me hold it for you for for the beginning stages. Because you and I both can remember those days, you know, really well, when you felt like, that's this is not gonna get any better. Oh,

Whitney Allen: 42:50

yeah. I mean, you truly feel that and that is justified in the moment. Like, I think for a season. Like, I think there is a season to feel completely terrible and Lawson and almost like hopeless, like I think that's needed to be able to get to like the next part. I don't think we can avoid that. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 43:14

I completely agree. We'll tell people where they can find you and find out more about you. Yeah,

Whitney Allen: 43:20

so if you're on social media, I met Whitney Lynn L Y. N. Allen, pretty much everywhere Instagram, Facebook, tik, Tok LinkedIn. And you can go to my website at Whitney Lynn Allen to get more information about my story. And my book, running and trauma stilettos is on Amazon.

Brian Smith: 43:44

Sounds great. Well, Whitney, it was good to talk to you today. Enjoy the rest of your afternoon. Thank

Whitney Allen: 43:49

you. I appreciate it. Bye