Transforming Grief Into Legacy- with Kevin O'Connor

In this episode of Grief 2 Growth, we're joined by Kevin O'Connor, an advocate for LGBTQ rights and sexual health, and author of 'Two Floors Above Grief.' Kevin shares his unique experiences of growing up in a funeral home and how this shaped his perspectives on life and grief.

📚 Learn more about Kevin and his work at [Kevin's Website].

📝 Episode Highlights:

• Kevin's life in a funeral home
• Balancing family life in the funeral industry
• Preserving family history through letters

We'd love to hear your thoughts on this episode. Please visit us at https://grief2growth.circle.so/c/podcast-chat/ and sound off.

Links Mentioned in this Episode:

• Kevin O'Connor: https://kevinoconnorauthor.com/

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Transcript

Brian Smith: 0:55

Hey there, welcome back to another episode of grief to growth Podcast where we explore the multifaceted nature of grief and the lessons that can teach us about life, about love about the strength of the human spirit. I'm your host, Brian Brian Smith and today I have the privilege of introducing a guest whose life's tapestry is woven with threads of education of advocacy and the enduring power of storytelling. Please welcome me join me in welcoming Kevin O'Connor. Kevin is not only a seasoned educator and a fierce advocate for LGBTQ rights and sexual health, but he's also an accomplished author performer, whose voices great grace both the page and the stage. His latest work we're going to talk about today is his book two floors above grief. And it's a poignant exploration of life as a son of a funeral director, and the rich legacy of family stories still told through letters. And today's conversation, we'll talk about Kevin's experiences, we'll discuss the intricacies of starting and maintaining a business of nurturing marriage and family life with the new unique context of the funeral industry. And the ways in which personal grief intertwines with the grief of others. And we'll talk about his insights on sharing our enriching family history by organizing ancestors letters, revealing the powerful continuity and connections that they hold. So this is an episode that promises to touch on the practicalities of life amidst death, but also talk about the emotional spiritual growth that can emerge from such from such experiences. So with that, I want to welcome to grifter growth. Kevin O'Connor.

Kevin O'Connor: 2:27

Right? That was a wonderful, thank you for that introduction. I I haven't had a podcast host take what I gave them and really made it make it your own. I got my may use what you just wrote us. The next blurb from my book may help with the marketing, but I read your that was eloquent what you said. Thanks very much.

Brian Smith: 2:49

Thank you very much. It's good to meet you. It's great to have you here today. I know you have a very unusual story. So you, your book has two floors above grief, I would say you grew up above a funeral home, but you actually grew up in a funeral home. So I know, there were some unique things other than just the fact that you grew up in a funeral home. So tell me about that experience.

Kevin O'Connor: 3:11

Ah, well, just the idea when I first ventured into writing this book I've been writing it for I'm 73 years old. I've been writing it for 73 years. I think that's the stories, the stories and things. And the influence and the experiences started at birth actually. My dad was already well established in the funeral home industry by that time I was born. The I in one when in part of the title, it talks about the unique place we call home. It's not it's not so much unique to have a funeral home family lived near or in or above or next to a funeral home. That was especially true before the advent of internet and cell phones and ways to communicate. Because a funeral homeowner needed to be right on the premises at all time to because death happens as you talked about on your other podcasts that I've listened to, you know, death death has no schedule that happens at any time. So, in our case, my dad and my uncle operated this funeral home in a Victorian house that they had purchased in in the late 30s converted the first floor into a funeral home and this top two floors were converted into apartments. Second floor was where my aunt and uncle and their three daughters lived in my mom and dad and my two brothers and I lived in the third floor. Another thing I guess, there's a lot of unique things about the house itself. If you are you're listening to this picture in old Victorian house, they usually are built to be a funeral. They're there. They're built on the first floor with welcoming parlors and Butler's kitchens and dining areas. And the second floors, usually bedrooms. And then the third floor in this particular house was a ballroom. It had two stages in it the beautiful hardwood floors and two stages. So when my mom and dad moved in with my older brother and 1940 He was just a baby. They had to they needed to convert this space of a ballroom into their apartment. And so they put up walls and designed and created bedrooms and kitchens and a bathroom and but what one thing they didn't do, and I don't know why initially for the first 10 years, well for the first 15 years they lived there. They kept the stages there. So my bed room had my brother's bedroom and we had a stage in the bedroom and then the room that was designated we called the backroom but essentially it's what most families would call a family room that also had a stage in it. So you mentioned in your intro that you know I like to perform on On stage, and I think that's partly because my crib and my twin bed and up until I was age nine, my bed or crib was right next to the stage. Wow. And so it wasn't unusual for me or my brothers or my cousins or friends to get up on the stage and put on plays. And there was an area underneath the stage that my parents use for storage, but it was great for kid games and hiding and hide and go seek and things like that just to do stuff in a play mode. But, and the other unique thing, on top of being living in a funeral home. The other unique thing about the two families was, for me to get to the apartment where I lived on the third floor, where my mom and dad and two brothers lived. I had to walk through the apartment of my, my aunt and uncle, and my three cousins who are a little older than me. So so the concept of privacy when my dad and uncle decided to create this living environment, I pretty sure they knew that they were given up some privacy, specially from my aunt and uncle. We actually on the third floor had a little more privacy. But for me, it wasn't unusual for me to come up the back stairs after playing or coming home from school. And as I stepped off the top step on the first set of stairs, I was right next to my aunt's kitchen, who was, that was usually where she was, she would greet me, she'd asked how my day was, my uncle might be around, my cousins might be in and out. So the idea that I had really two sets of parents, and that's what I talked about in the book, too, that what made it unique was I had two sets of parents people that for the most part 98% part, I guess, got along. So it was a bonus that these two brothers decided to have this business. But again, the families I got along and even in the 19, I point out in the book that in the 1950s 50 census that was just released in the last year. So I went looked at it, and it listed my three cousins, and my myself and my older brother, my younger brother had been born yet, but it listed us as brothers and sisters. So we always teased each other that we were raised as brothers and sisters in this environment. And then I just felt gee, this is the census taker sort of confirm that and 1850. And the cousins have passed on. So that's, you know, as part of my grief story, two, out of the 10 of us that live there, it's just myself and my two brothers that that that are still in this, this area of living on Earth, and everybody else has passed on. But those are I think some of the answers to your questions. That's some of what made it unique. And I dress other things throughout the book. But those are the primary things that I think made my upbringing a little unique. And I didn't, I knew it wasn't equalized, growing up. But I guess I've realized that even more in the writing of the book, and since the book was published, I think, as people comment on things, and I get to have podcasts with folks like yourself, or make presentations that people say, Wow, that was really interesting that you're born in a funeral home. So here I am talking to you. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 9:24

yeah, that's, that is really interesting. And, you know, death is something in our society that we don't we don't talk about we try to avoid. So I can only imagine what it was like for you growing up with, you know, people grieving people coming in and stuff. So it's, I'm sure when you were a child, you didn't realize how unique it was. But since then, Have you have you thought about how this has informed the way you think about death and about grieving?

Kevin O'Connor: 9:49

Oh, yeah, yeah. I get that a similar question. A lot of times Do do do I think I perceive death and grief any differently than somebody who might not have lived in that environment? And I guess, one of the things I've come to understand is, I've had many, many deaths experience in my life and many grief experiences and talking to friends and family. I really don't think my approach to it. Is it probably any different? Yes, I think it's probably it was. I learned at an early age that that death can happen at any time that there is no schedule. I know you know that all too well. Based on the, your podcasts that I've listened to, but on the on the other hand, when it does happen when death happens, the impact it's had on me, is similar to anybody else I've spoken to it's it's it's a you mentioned earlier, it's I'd say multifaceted. I wrote that down. There. multitiered, multifaceted aspects. I just one of my closest cousin died two weeks ago today at age 90. And we gathered for her services and in Indiana, and, and she was, she was a cousin of the undertaking family. So she was all very familiar. And grew up in that than that growing up in the house, but spent a lot of time there. But in certainly these early two weeks, and she had prepared me for her going, and she had an uncanny, she was a Catholic, Sister Catholic nun. And she, and I talked two to three times a month, and in the last few years, she's just been telling me, I'm very ready, I'm ready to go. And she stayed very active and alert, still better still in a bed a lot. But her mind was really good. And even in my last conversation with her, three weeks ago, she was talking about, I'm ready now, and I'm ready. And she just passed away in her sleep two weeks ago. So and that's those kinds of situations aren't, I'm not a stranger to that. Or all the other ways people pass on or people die. I mean, she she certainly died in a way that she'd almost prescribed for herself, fortunately, but in a quiet way, in a way that just at age 90 that her body led her to that, you know, certainly other as other times of death, they're a lot more shocking. So I think that answers your question. I don't know. Yeah,

Brian Smith: 13:20

absolutely. So when you're, I've just, again, I know it's hard to compare our childhood to other people's childhoods, just because we don't know what their childhood was like. But I can imagine that you did your your father, your uncle talk about, like the clients that were coming through and various because you said people die all kinds of ways. We think of people's dying legal, but I think everybody's old when they die, you know, they all die quietly in their bed. Right? So what were your experiences like in finding out why, you know, death can happen at any time to anyone?

Kevin O'Connor: 13:55

Thanks for that question. I think. Certainly, I was aware when the phone rang in the middle of the night, and I went here and my dad, he had it on our third floor and apartment as phone system change as phone systems changed in the 50s. And 60s, we had more extensions in the house. So the phone would ring and I would wake up a little bit and I'd hear my dad's I'll be right there, I'll be right there. And then I would hear him put the phone down, I was probably asleep most times, by the time he reached by he left up the apartment, or that I might hear him when he came back later to wake me up to go to school or whatever. So I was very aware of how bad happens it anytime of the day, or even if in the in the middle of the day, if the phone rang, even in the middle of dinner, if the phone rang and dad answered it, and he just left it he just left whether is that we also provided ambulance calls so because there were no paramedics in those 50s and 60s, the funeral homes in our town took care of that. So those kinds of things that happen became a part of life for me the the the suddenness the spontaneity of it, I guess for lack of a better word. But to go back to another part of your question. Did I think yeah, you ask if what did I know about the clients? What are they know? What did my dad or uncle, oh, my mom or aunt share? That was very, I respect them more and more for this as I get older. And as I've learned more about this, they didn't involve us too much in the, in the clients. I mean, I certainly some of the families I knew because they were related to us, or they were friends of the family. But even with those details, I dad and my uncle never talked about the process or the preparation process of the the physical preparation process. And if there was things that happened to certain aspects of this particular client's death or a family situation, I was never aware of that. And people will, people will ask me, you know, why didn't? How come? You don't know. So I don't know so much about the business because I never went into it myself. I said, I really I really think that that's a credit to my parents. And then I just in the last three weeks or three months, I came across through a cousin. She found a plaque that had been hanging in the preparation room of the funeral home and I don't have it in front of me but the But the gist of the saying was speaking to the the embalmer, the The Undertaker, and it was saying, in a general sense, hey, this, this family and trusted this person to you, it's up to you, you have the responsibility to be discreet, to take very good care and to be responsible for this person because this person belongs to a family. And don't. And we did, there was no don'ts in the thing. But the message was, this is private. And this is it's not a funeral directors purvey to go talking about their clients, to their family, to their friends to their organizations, and and I never knew my dad or uncle to do that. So, yeah, I knew I was aware of those funerals, I was aware that there was a family gathering. And certainly I helped in different ways in the funeral home, whether it be setting up flowers, putting up chairs, greeting people at the door running, going on errands for my dad's different things, especially when I started driving. But I didn't know a lot of the the knowledge I say, the factors and I've learned that since this by the there's other podcasts, you may be familiar with some of them. There's other podcasts or podcast available work. Funeral Directors speak directly to their experiences and what happened at the moment of death with this person. Some of those circumstances are pretty gruesome. Right? And, and, and I want I've been listening to those, I'm thinking, Oh, my dad and uncle must have experienced that. But I never would have known that, you know, it helped me understand listening to these other people's podcasts. Other and most of them being funeral directors, just some of the more of the background that my dad and uncle chose not to share with us as as a family. So I really give them a they've been gone a long time, but it increases the respect I have for them and the the respect they had for the families with whom they worked. So So

Brian Smith: 19:07

your father and your uncle to start with the eye. So this was not a business that your family was in before that your your father, your uncle decided to start it. Is that

Kevin O'Connor: 19:15

correct? Well, my uncle started he's about eight years older than my dad. And, and he, he had got interested in it as a 20. Something. When he lived in Hammond, Indiana, he had worked for a funeral home there in Hammond, Indiana. And when, but what but he wanted to have a funeral home of his own, and there just wasn't an opportunity. And that area of Indiana in Hammond, Gary, that area is this is 1929 1930s. So you look at the economic times, right and the depression. But that was and he got married in 1932, my aunt and he said, he conceived of a plan which she knew a little bit about, but he made some decisions. Without her I think he's still I got a chance to move this town called Elgin, Illinois. And I've got an opportunity to start a funeral home and rent a house there to get us started. And she says why we're just getting married. She went along with him. And I think that was more what brides may have done in 1930. You know, yeah, he was he was the. And so he started and moved to move to Elgin, which was about two and a half hours at a time two and a half to three hours away from where he grew up. And he moved into this town where he knew nobody except maybe the one person who said there might be an opportunity for him. And he got so then he took my dad with them. My dad was a high school student at a time but he took my dad and my dad's sister with him and his parents, my grandparents, and they all work the funeral home together. And my dad finished high school there. And then decided to, to join and met my mom and, and she was from the town. So my uncle Lauren started at first and then dad came in about eight, nine years later. So and then they they stayed together as partners until well, 84 My dad died in 84. So that's and then the business was sold right about that time on that happen.

Brian Smith: 22:00

So I'm curious, did you ever consider going into the business? Yeah, well,

Kevin O'Connor: 22:04

my brothers and I have this conversation. I talked on the book too. When my, my, my cousin's, they were let's see, the oldest one was 19 years older than me and the youngest one was 14 years older than me. So they were they were coming of age in the late 40s and 50s and There wasn't an opportunity for them at that time. It wasn't even considered a role for women at the time to I haven't been able to in my research, I haven't been able to find much that I found stuff that support says that, you know, in terms of careers for women at the time, being a funeral director wasn't one of those, those options.

Brian Smith: 22:48

Time for real quick break, make sure you like and subscribe, liking the video will show it to more people on YouTube, and subscribe, you will make sure you get access to all my great content in the future. And now back to the video.

Kevin O'Connor: 23:00

So they did things they went to college they pursued different careers, got married, had children. But so for them, it never if I don't think it was ever a choice for my brothers and I My brother was born in 1940, I was born and 50 My other brother was born in 51, it was more of a choice, we could we had the option, my uncle dad never really intentionally recruited us or, or did things to say we, you know, we've started this for you. And now you're gonna take it over. They we always had the message that this is there for you if you want to pursue it. But we want, we want you to have the experiences of your schooling, other careers other interest. And that's really what happened. Myself, I, I thought about it. And I knew where I could go to school if I wanted to get an undertaking degree. But I just I pursued a bachelor's degree in political science and education and became a teacher. My older brother, he became a banker, and a finance person. And my younger brother became a business owner and a contractor building. So but we've talked about, though, just how the skills we observed, and my uncle and my dad have affected us and all our careers. So and and for myself, it's just being a teacher and a principal educator, the idea of that whole aspect of being of service of being in a role where people are counting on you to provide and to as an educator, being able to do things spontaneously, as well as planned. Certainly, I learned that from from my dad and my uncle that and watched watching them how they cared for and treated people. I learned those skills from them, and deployed those through my college years and into starting my career and up to my retirement for three years ago from education. So up to the time, I was 70. So, but there was always, I mean, even in the lighter side, as a school principal. We had a lot of events at our elementary school, of course, oftentimes, as a principal, I was setting up and taking down shares and arranging getting ready for a program and oftentimes, I think, Hey, this is like you did in the funeral hall. You were getting ready for funerals and awakes and moving furniture around moving furniture, getting ready for people to come to your house getting ready. In this case, it was getting ready to come to my school. So I would I would read myself a little bit as in my, with my with my doctorate in education and and being a principal and still a carrier still taking out and setting up chairs, just like he did as a kid. Yeah, I mean that and that's just the physical thing, but certainly in the emotional part and connecting with people and relationship wise I learned so so much from the funeral industry so much.

Brian Smith: 26:17

Yeah, it's interesting you say that how those those basic skills translate into whatever you go into. So your your career being very different from your brothers, but still learn those those people skills and hospitality skills and from your father. Yeah,

Kevin O'Connor: 26:31

yeah, yeah, yeah. And I dare say my, all of my brothers, my both my brothers are active and community organizations and that not only Civic, but business and bringing people together and organizing and taking leadership roles and things. So we've all ended up doing things like that. And I think that was just part of what we learned from from not only for my uncle and my dad, but also from my mom and my aunt. That's just how they operated the business. And we got we we lived and breathed it so we watched it all the time.

Brian Smith: 27:06

So you mentioned the stages in the in the upper floor. And you mentioned the fact that you and your cousins would play on the stage and apparently Yeah, part of what you continue to do after that.

Kevin O'Connor: 27:18

Yeah, I never I never I didn't pursue it professionally. But in high school doing poorly A isn't it was added even. Even in the funeral I always my are my family, our families were always having playing records and albums there in the 50s and 60s, oftentimes, Broadway show tunes and popular singers. And at an early age, I got acquainted with musical scores and, and the idea of, and my parents taking us to plays in the suburbs and also in Chicago. And I want to my kid, young kid, ideas of recreation was to, to play those songs and to sing and to dance. And sometimes when the, when there wasn't a weight going on, or a funeral going on, I would just take my cassette tape recorder, and I'd go down to the Funeral Chapel. And it's in the book, I say, this was my stage, this is my venue. And I would turn that cassette player up, and I might pretend I'm Tony from West Side Story, or Curley from Oklahoma or, or something. Or maybe even pretend I was was Mary Martin from sound or music or whatever it was at the time. But I was always intrigued with with that was kind of music and now in my adult life, I've just always pursued community theater. And when I was raising my kids, I did that or if people needed in a civic organization to have somebody sing, or even as a principal, I know some people call me the singing principal, because I would engage the kids in song and do stuff like that. And, and just recently, I did a play down here. In Fort Lauderdale, they have a great community theater group that I get that I'm involved in. So it's, so I started doing this, I've been doing this for, I'd say almost 6570 years, just dabbling in it and, and having fun with it. And that being another outlet for me a creative outlet for me. No, but I get that from my parents, and my aunt and uncle because they they always had music playing and I talked about that in the book, there was always music going on either on a record or playing the piano or people singing or family gatherings or taking us to plays or dad would work on sets and do stuff like that mom would be a director of a play dad would be a direct mean. So that was an influence for us all along all along. So,

Brian Smith: 29:57

so wonderful. I know a big part of your book is is preserving and moving forward your family legacy. So tell me about how the letters came together to to organize this.

Kevin O'Connor: 30:07

Thank you for that question. Yeah. Well, one of the motivating forces to write the book was knowing I had all these stories in my head. And knowing that, from my mom and dad and aunt and uncle, there are now about I think at last count, I think we're at 152 offs. I think we're in the great, great, maybe even great, great, great grandchildren part from my, from my aunt and uncle. But we're getting there. So I knew the other mission was I wanted to tell people these stories. And as my generation has started is dying off more, I thought, hey, these, we all have our stories, but some, and somebody would say, Kevin, what are you going to who's going to write these stories down? So that was part of my motivation. But the other incentive was from a family letters that had been sent back and forth, when people used to write letters. Right. And, and that would add got a letter in there. I think the earliest one is from 1939. When my mother wrote, we have a letter that she wrote to her parents on the night of her honeymoon, just telling them thank you for their wedding. And thank you for all that. So that's probably the I've got a couple that are earlier than that. But that's the one I started with in the book. And then on this one, as I got going to them on my knees, my three cousins moved away at their families, they would write letters and write back and forth. So there's those letters that went back and forth. And then as I got into going away to college and 1968. That's the bulk of the letters are from the years 68 to 7273. And just letters that my mom and dad, aunt and uncle wrote to me whether I was at school in Chicago, or I had also a year that I went to school as a junior in Rome, Italy. And then when I graduated, I moved to San Francisco in the Bay Area. So the letters went back and forth. And I saved the letters that they sent to me. They in turn, and my mom I have a point in the book horror mom writes me in 1971. I'm a student enrollment, she said, we're saving all these letters. And in she said someday, I wrote her back I said, that's great, Mom, I'll save the ones you send me to maybe someday We'll be able to read them to each other. Lo and behold, in 2020 10 My mom is in failing health. And she's unable to hold the book in her hand anymore, but she still loves to be read to. So I was sitting on her with her on her terrace. She was living the last few months of her life in Hallandale, Beach, Florida, and she had a terrace overlooking the ocean. And so we're out there one day. And she said, I said, Mom, mind me, I'll just read the A from these notebooks of letters that I have. And I just put them I opened them up rather randomly. And the one this in this random fashion, I went to the letter that she had written me in 1970, telling me, I'm going to save your letters and and my return was in there, too. Yeah, someday we're going to be able to read these out loud to each other. Wow, I think I know, I had goosebumps on my arms. And I looked at my mom. And she was she died about three months later. But at that time, she was crying. She said, Isn't it amazing that this really happened. So the letters became a treasure trove. And so as I own the earlier, maybe around 2005, or six, somewhere about I had all these letters and boxes and folders and file folders. By the time I did that reading session with my mom, I had them organized into notebooks. And what I did is I had taken all the letters and I had, let's lay them out at random, and then started organizing them by year. I think I started with decade, and then I went decade down to year, and then year and the month and month and the day. And then I just put them all in sequence in a notebook. I still have. So I now I have five, four inch, four inch wide, three ring binders, which hold all these letters that are preserved in plastic sleeves, and with the envelopes and a lot of cases and the postmarks and all that too. So a lot of the stories in the book are either each chapter is either launched, due to one of these letters, or I'll reference the letter if I'm talking about a certain theme or a certain aspect. In the book, the the other thing I talk about in the book, in since I know the audience is also people that are younger, and I was writing it for my our progeny are 150 offspring. A lot of them don't have any concept. What letter writing is, you know? And so I would I make reference and point out, Hey, this is the way our family and many families communicated. We didn't have email, we didn't have the expeditious pneus of a text. We, our routine at home was to go to the mail at 1030 every day and in the house and look forward to what was there. And certainly it was your bills and your flyers and business from but then there was letters there too, and notes and cards and I kid my third night, my 39 year old son now I'll say, Hey, I sent you a card. Did you get it? He said, Oh, I haven't checked my mailbox in about two weeks. Yeah, I mean, there is an even an interest in doing it and where it was for us in our house. And that time it was a lifeblood it was it was more than a routine. It was something that will the business depended on it, the mail, but also for the correspondence. And so to put those letters together and get them organized and 700 pages, turned out to about 700 pages that I have in these notebooks of letters. And so for me, it's a wonderful thread that that takes the stories. And in my book, I decided early on as I was writing it this is not a book that's going to like some memoirs are I was born in this year. And then the next thing that happened to me and everything when I got out of diapers, no, I didn't I didn't do that. I as I looked at the letters and started to lay out all the things that are happening and in my thoughts and in the letters, a lot of themes start to come out. So that's the book is based on themes and there is some sequence to the book, but it intertwines itself with, with the themes that are going on on our family and themes of family togetherness and themes of crises and themes of joy, but also themes of sadness and themes of Oh, even in with the 1960s and 70s. There's a whole chapter on hair because with the advent of the Beatles and hairstyles changing especially for men at that time, boys, that was a big deal in our house. And so that that chapter is called Give me a head of hair, and just different things that happen in the family. In regards to hair or every, almost all the adults in the house smoked in that chapter Smoke Gets In Your Eyes and how did they undo themselves for those addictions and how it was a focus at the time of the seriousness of smoking. So those are the some of the things and then I weave different historical references throughout the book, whether it's the president at the time, or might be Vietnam, or the Nixon Watergate tapes, or just different things that are happening to give sort of a baseline to what's happening in our family with what's happening internationally or nationally as well.

Brian Smith: 38:03

So how was how's your family reacted to the response to the book?

Kevin O'Connor: 38:07

Oh? Well, the cut I was telling you about my cousin who just died. She was one of my, my readers, along with a few other people. And her their reactions were always supportive. I mean, I was having that her and my two brothers, and a couple other cousins, this read different sections, because I wanted to make sure that I was this to reassure myself that I was being authentic, and I wasn't making anything off. Because sometimes the seven year old brain Well, memory, I think it's clear, but I wanted to make sure. So no, the family has been very supportive. Last, last Christmas, for the holiday holidays, my brother's arranged to give all their grandchildren copies and children copies. And so we had a presentation at during our holiday celebration, where they all got a signed copy. And the kids of Britain, some of the kids have written me this, I didn't know that. And thanks for telling me this, and, and that, that extends into other cousins and stuff, too. So the family, the family has been very receptive. And I could almost to the point of asking, is there anything here? You don't? It's printed now. But is there any thing else I can? I can correct in a newsletter that I send out? No, nobody is come forward with that. So I think we've all been pretty much in agreement. And I think now, the family just treats it as, as a record treats it as a something that they can continue to pass on to their children. And if they get, I've had some people say, I went back to that chapter again, because I want to make sure what you said. So it's, it's sort of I think, for there's a and there's a family tree embedded in the book. So you know, they'll go back there to say, Oh, I was, I forgot. That's how we're related. Or I forgot about that part. So it's, the family has been really good about it. And and very fun. And they're encouraging me to write another one. So ready to go. Ready to go.

Brian Smith: 40:14

Awesome. So what have been what have been the responses from the people or from your readers? Just the general readers that have picked up the book? Oh, okay.

Kevin O'Connor: 40:25

Let's see. Do I have something with me? Hold on for a second. Wait a minute. Sure. I was looking in this coffee shop usually have some postcards here. But they're all gone, fortunately. So somebody took the postcards hope. But the reaction of readers is this been, oh, this recently I got a call from a high school social studies teacher that I've kept sort of in contact with that. Now. It's been I've been at high school more than 55 years. But he just call he texted me. And he said, Hey, I got your number. And I just read the book. And and I was making some connections, what can you give me a call? And I get, you know, bits of feedback. So we had a great chat on that. And one of the, when you look at the Amazon reader reviews, we got about close to 100 of those right now. And just different people's saying one, one person said, hey, the house itself is like a character and the way I describe the house and the how, if I say that, in a different kind of physical house setting, our families may not have built the kind of relationships we have. The house itself becomes a character. And other I've had a couple people write to me or in review, say, Hey, this is this is like the real Six Feet Under family. I'm not sure if you're familiar that HBO series of about 20 years ago, six feet under. And so I get feedback from that way. And also, when I'm checking in with some of the people that are still talking about six feet under online, I'll let them know that I have this book and then they'll write back to me because I think our family is a little less quirky than their family. Lyon, six feet under. But anyway, it just it talks about how how family how family business works. The other thing that's I've gotten some interesting reactions. One of the is on Amazon, when books sell they, they get different rankings and the rankings could change in a day. Because even one if you sell one, one more book, it's gonna might change your rankings and things. And also the categories are listed in I think maybe you've got a book yourself, you probably know that. But the idea that for a while I was getting rated, in the top 10 and 20 for teen and young adult readers. And I thought, Wow, that's pretty cool. When I first marketed the book, I figured the demographic was more like 40 to two deaths. The readers, but so what I've begun to realize, in talking to other people is teens and young adults might focus, they're intrigued with the idea of being raised and living in a funeral home. They're also intrigued. And some of them, it's also been ranked for entrepreneurs and business owners because I spent some time in the book weaving in stories about how my dad and uncle market at the business, especially a brand new business in 1930. How do you do that? Well, some of those lessons that are in there could be applied to entrepreneurs now. And I think maybe that's another reason. So it's been an unexpected audience for the book and and one that I'm working on to try to get more get in front of people of that age. To do that, and talk about how did people do start a business in 1930, in the midst of the Depression, if they could do it in 1930. And the business was a funeral home, think what you could do in in 100 years later, and 2023. So that's been another fun thing in terms of the audience beyond the family has been really fun to to watch and to and see how that evolves. And when I get in front of people and stuff, too. It's good.

Brian Smith: 44:39

Yeah, awesome. So as you've you know, over the over the decades since you lived, you know, in the funeral home, and as you grown, and I'm sure they probably experience I know, you've lost cousins and your parents and stuff. How do you feel? How is your view on grief or losing people? How's that evolved over a period of time?

Kevin O'Connor: 45:00

Well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take your question and sort of dovetail it into other things I've heard you talk about with other guests. And I want to share a couple of things that how the people that have passed before me are still with me. And I know that's a topic that that Oh, what was it? Who was the person I listened to recently? Gotta put my glasses on? Oh, the well, not only near death, yeah, the Near Death Experiences talk. But also, just when, oh, your guest, an admin grinton was talking about Alzheimer's, and how and people that have passed on before him? Well, my father and I talked about this in the book, the couple of nights, a couple of days before my father died. He was with hospice in his own home. And at that time, my children were two and the six months, just very young. And I took them over to the house, my parents house, and I just laid the two of them next to my father who was in and out. He was conscious in and out. And he, he was said, Oh, I'm so so great to have the boys laying here next to me. And he said, Hey, Kev, we gotta get that condo sold. story being that my wife and I and the kids were in a condo, but we were trying to sell the house, sell it, so we couldn't get a bigger house. This is 1984. And we had it been on the market almost a year. And we hadn't had one person look at the place. I'd have to go back and see what the real estate market conditions were at the time I don't remember. But at the time at the so this particular evening, I told my dad I said, Well, hey, this week, we got a new realtor. We decided that we'd switch over to a new realtor. Her name's Cindy, and she's working on it. He's Oh, that'd be good. I mean, he then he says one of his last words to me was we have to get that place sold so you can find something else. We so that was that was Friday night. I didn't know he died Sunday morning at seven o'clock and I didn't see him on Saturday. So Tuesday is the wake and I'm standing in line. And Cindy the realtor calm See the line and she's talking to me. And she's Keva I think I might have somebody interested in your house and your condo. I said, Wait a minute, this place, you just took it over this place has been on the market for a year, we haven't had a nibble. And she says, Well, I know you'll be busy with the funeral tomorrow, but I'm going to show it to this, this, this prospect and see what he thinks. I said, Okay, keep me posted. So I was busy that night, the next day, of course, with the funeral. And Thursday, Thursday, after the next day, I get a call from her. And she says the guy this guy wants to make an offer. And I said, Wait, she's, I think your dad is working on this. And she had never had the effort. I don't think she may have had the opportunity to meet my dad. I can't remember. But she's I think your dad's working on this. And when I think back to his last comment to me, we have to get this place sold. I gotta believe. I gotta believe that if he died on Sunday morning. He in His own way, in his position he was taking found this person, he was a single man looking for a place to buy. I think Dad found them I really do. And made and and found it because then store Cindy, tell me. She says Yeah, I heard in the office, there was this young kid looking for a place to buy. And so however, to this day, I still think that that's the reason it happened. That it was his dad's interest in me interest in his grandkids, His love for us, knowing that we were working pretty hard to get it sold. And then his state his last words to me, Well, we got to get this place sold. He took he took that we seriously. And by November of that year, he died in early September. By Thanksgiving of that year, we were in our house, we sold our condo bought a house and moved. So I want to think of experiences like that. I just I don't know, I think I think this happens to a lot of people. And it's not uncommon and you to have talked about was at the ice cream store that your daughter liked and stuff was was it that you're there's a place you drive by that where you're used? Yeah. And you just feel a connection there and things. I think it's the people that have gone before us, I think they have a way of communicating. And I think if we listen, and we pay attention, we're gonna get those messages and stuff. I think that's I'm not sure what your question

Brian Smith: 50:18

about how your how your view of grief or you know, how that how that might have evolved over over the years. So I'm just curious, growing up and that within industry, because you said your father, your uncle didn't really bring it home. But did they talk to you about spirituality when you were when you were younger? Or what were your beliefs, then? Well,

Kevin O'Connor: 50:38

yeah, they talked to us and that we were raised Catholic. So that's, you know, at that time, that was pretty serious, regular church going. And every, every Sunday, and my cousins, and my brothers and I all went to parochial school for elementary and high school. So we all have that influence on a daily basis. I mean, sometimes I would in elementary school, I would have, they would take the kids who are altar boys like myself, and they would take us over to church to say we needed to, and they would call serve the funeral and be the altar boys for the funeral, that sometimes my dad and uncle would be the people that were doing the funeral. So right here, I'm doing the church function, and they're doing on death. So no, and we did. Our family was very big on the religious or, in this case, Catholic, the rituals and the routines and the beliefs and the My uncle was very insistent that my brother and I become altar boys. And I talked in the book about how he, he took us under his wing and worked with the the nuns and the priest, to know what to teach us and practice with us. And some of my fondest memories of my uncle are sitting in his lap, learning how to say the Latin prayers. So and for whatever reason he took on that role, and, and my dad didn't I don't know, I think was all set up that my uncle was doing it because he wanted to make this a surprise for my mom and dad. So he took us under his wing and did that. So yeah, I have felt that kind of presence that Through ritual, knowing my dad and uncle were always Ushers and dad was active at church doing decorating and helping or he could, church was a big part of the life the parish was a big part of their life. And I had that kind of influence from a spiritual sense. So and doing things like making we call them may alters in May for the for the for the blessing version and doing all those kinds of things that dad would help with. And, and, and being a parochial school, school student, you, you did those kinds of things. So yeah, yeah.

Brian Smith: 53:03

Great. Well, Kevin, thank you so much for being here today and sharing your your family with us and your your family's legacy, in your book, remind people of the name of your book and get it and if people can reach out to you if they have questions or to contact you let them know that information as well.

Kevin O'Connor: 53:21

Yeah, yeah, I think you'll put this in the liner notes as well, I presume. Yeah, that's why I thought, well, people can get a hold of me in a few ways. One is to go to my website, it's Kevin O'Connor author.com. And it's, you can get that's one way to go. And the other thing is to just if they go to Amazon, they can just type in the title two floors above grief. And that's the only title that pops up. And so they go there to learn more about the book. And there's a little there's more detail about different synopsises of the book and people that have written some reviews and reviewers to tell you a little more about the background. That's there to the other thing, my phone, people can contact me this through text at 815-546-1076. So those are three, three ways that they can get a hold of me directly. A lot of times with people's permission, what I do is I have them, sign up for a newsletter that I put out. And that comes out usually every Friday or Saturday, and just talks about what's going on with the book, we're having a we're coming up on the one year anniversary. So we're going to have a first year anniversary zoom celebration in early December. And I keep up with people about what events I'm going to this weekend, we're going to the Miami book fair, so we'll be there. And I'll meet people that way. And there's different local events I do or when I'm traveling, I try to make contact with a bookstore or a coffee shop and meet there. So there's I'm on the road on the we have another thing that's called Where on earth is two floors above grief. So I will put that as detail some of that in the newsletter. Also, I asked friends if they're taking a trip, if they can squeeze the book into their luggage, or they can use their Kindle. But if there happened to be reading the book at some place they're traveling to like a friend of mine was in Scotland, two or three weeks ago, and he took pictures of the book at different locations in Scotland, some of my granddaughters have taken took the book to to Madrid and posed it in different ways and things like that. So that's where on earth is two floors of of grief. So I have, I just want my community of readers and people that are interested in to have fun with it. Like I'm having fun with it, I mean, that all the book is fun. But I get like you use the word point and see, and there's no stories of different stories of the people that died in the family and how we dealt with it. That fact, the last seven chapters are all about the people that have preceded me in death and what their funerals were like and what their last days were like, I stole that idea from six feet under a little bit. But just to do that, and and, and how we experienced that those times. So that's what I do. So those are the ways they can hear more from me or get a hold of the book. And I encourage them to do it. And I hope they have they enjoy it, although the audible version is out now too. So the I didn't I didn't narrate it myself. But you can get the audible version just by going to Amazon as well. And if they want to support their local bookstores, whether it be a independent store or a Barnes and Noble, any one of those places they can go to and just give the title and they can order it from the store. The stores a lot of times in the self publishing world. The stories don't carry self published authors. But if a person wants the watch the book, they can just order it in this. I haven't heard of a story yet. That was that didn't order it for people. So that's good to great. Well,

Brian Smith: 57:15

again, Kevin, thanks so much for being here today.

Kevin O'Connor: 57:18

Brian, I appreciate and I really enjoy your podcasts. I want to keep listening to them as I'm walking and doing stuff because you so really have a great array, I guess of guests and the people that you that you welcome into your room. That's very nice. All right, enjoy

Brian Smith: 57:35

the rest of your afternoon.

Kevin O'Connor: 57:36

Hey, thanks. Thanks a lot. Bye bye bye bye