His NDE Made Him Wise Beyond His Years- Jacob Cooper

This is my second interview with Jacob Cooper. Jacob had a profound NDE at the tender age of three years old. That NDE not only gave him a return trip to where we all come from, it opened his intuition that keeps him connected to that realm.

Jacob Cooper is a Clinical Social Worker, Certified Reiki Master, and Certified Hypnotherapist specializing in Past Life Regression Therapy, and works privately with clients through online services. Inspired by his near-death experience and transformative encounters, he facilitates spiritual awareness and empowerment through life-changing seminars. Currently, he resides and practices in Long Island, NY. 

He is the best-selling author of "Life After Breath" and the recent release, "The Wisdom of Jacob's Ladder."

🔗 https://www.jacoblcooper.com

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I've been studying Near Death Experiences for many years now. I am 100% convinced they are real. In this short, free ebook, I not only explain why I believe NDEs are real, I share some of the universal secrets brought back by people who have had them.

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Transcript

Brian Smith  0:00  
Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that causes the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if, like a seed we've been planted, and having been planted would grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes, open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true, infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth. And I am your host, Brian Smith. Hey, everybody, this is Brian back with another episode of grief to growth. Today I've got with me Jacob Cooper, Jake Cooper. I've had Jacob before. He's a fascinating young man. He's a clinical social worker. He's a certified Reiki master. He's a certified hypnotherapist, and he specializes in past life regression therapy. He works privately with clients through online services. And this has been inspired by his near death experience and his transformations formative encounters I should say. He facilitate spiritual awareness and power through life changing seminars. He currently resides in practices as Long Island, New York. And he's the best selling author of the book Life After breath, which I have read and I highly recommend. And the recent release, which was discussed today is called The Wisdom of Jacob's Ladder. So I want to keep his introduction short, I wanted to just bring Jacob in to start a conversation.

Jacob Cooper  1:33  
Brian, thank you so much. I am so glad and honored to be back here on grief to growth. I can't tell you how honored and humbled I am to be returned guests here.

Brian Smith  1:44  
Well, I tell you, you're I've done about 250 interviews, I think now and there are a few that really stand out to me and yours. Yours is one of them. Your story is fascinating. You're a fascinating person. I love what you're doing in the world. So let's start by telling people a little bit about who you are and what led you what put you on the path that you're on.

Jacob Cooper  2:04  
Yeah, well, thank you that. That means a lot. I know you've had some incredible, fascinating guests. So thank you keep it up. But I mean a little bit about myself. I know you mentioned my two books. I wrote my first two books, really about my near death experience that happened at just the young age of three years old. And I'm sure on grief to growth we've had near death experiences on but I'm in a different position because mine happened at such a young age, I was only three years old as a as a young infant. So, you know, it comes with a great deal of questions which sparks curiosity and expanded viewpoints of consciousness. But for me, at least, it's been a double edged sword, to say the least. No, having that great euphoria that I had in my end D, but also having quite a complex trajectory. You know, in my life, where I just recognized, hey, you know, as a kid, you're kind of getting, you know, adjusted to being a kid and you're, you're just learning how to be a kid. And all of a sudden, I recognize, I'm not a kid, I'm experiencing myself as a kid. But there's, there's a you beyond the you, there's a world beyond this world, and there's a life, there's a life beyond this life. And so, to have that awareness, and then to just come back into reality at such a young child to age, let's have quite a complicated and difficult experience, but I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Brian Smith  3:36  
Yeah, and that's, that's a really good point. Because I think there's a reason why we have the veil. We come in and we forget, and a lot of us it'd be great if we could remember but I know that that remembrance at that early of an age presents a special set of challenges. I know Ingrid Honkala talks about a lot I think she had to when she had her experience,

Jacob Cooper  3:55  
she could always want up me and anything. She's awesome.

Brian Smith  4:00  
Well, well, it's like reading your book and I know your story, but I for the people haven't heard your story before. Tell people a little bit about your your experience.

Jacob Cooper  4:09  
Yeah, you know, September of 1993 I went to a playground or you know, instead of a park, and at the time, I didn't know it, but I had something called pertussis otherwise known as whooping cough. And so for those unfamiliar for infants, children's, you know, and even adults whooping cough could be fatal. If left untreated, you know, it's quite serious. So, I had this, you know, cough when I went to the park and I just, you know, climbed up into a ladder onto a slide and due to whooping cough, I, you know, suffocated as a result of this cough. And, you know, it was the most traumatizing moment of my life. I don't want to share that lightly losing your breath and suffocating was incredibly scary and kind of like a familiar with Eben Alexander. I was just kind of putting this period of like chore And while this incubation period of turmoil, where I wasn't crossed over now still, you know, experiencing this intense torture and pain of not being able to breathe, but then I was able to let go, you know, of suffering, I was able to let go, you know, of my suffocation and I found in remember deep within that was there was a breath beyond the human breath. And that is the breadth of eternity, the breadth of creation that we are forever connected to that. And so once I surrendered from that pain, I was able to transcend the pain and really have a profound crossing over experience, you know, this experience, you know, encompassed, you know, encounters with my own spiritual guides, it encompassed awareness of, you know, infinite amount of angels that I was able to see, right, literally, in front of me in the playground, I was aware of, you know, the term or the vernacular is God, but I can't, I'd have to say that's quite a, you know, you can't put a label on it. And, you know, there's a Christ consciousness that I had, which, again, rare, given by background, which we'll get into a little bit awareness of what I would do in this lifetime awareness of past lifetimes, encounters with my soul family. So it was profound, in a sense, but also not really, because it was quite a familiar place to place, at least to me, where I was always connected to directly or indirectly, you know, even you know, at that young age, but it was just to me a return to home, you know, the dwelling of my own soul, and a place where we could walk many miles, but we're always connected, you know, deep within the door of a heart place.

Brian Smith  6:48  
So, um, yeah, I'm just trying to imagine what that would be like it three, because at that age, I would say, kids are not even fully here, you're still like, half there and half year, like, sounds like it was very familiar when you went back.

Jacob Cooper  7:01  
Right, you know, and one sense, like, I hear near death experience, there's, there is an incubation period, that happens at times, when you cross over, it's an adjustment period, I mean, think about it, you're living X amount of time as a human being, and all of a sudden, you just abruptly crossover, it takes time for some to get familiar with some automatically, you know, just go right into it. But you know, it takes time to kind of process we still carry, you know, our own awareness or unconsciousness, you know, and so, the scenery around us change, and so we're able to adapt to it and become it. not separate from it. But yeah, I mean, in one sense, it was easier, right? I was, you know, less, kind of programmed, if you will, or there was less forgetfulness. You know, but I want to preface that two things could be true at the same time, I always try to say this, as a therapist, we live in a very, you know, unit dimensional world where we see one thing is true, you know, there could be multiple truths. So there was a part of myself that was connected to the ego, you know, to the three year old, experiencing myself, but then there was an awareness that went far beyond that. And that was the eyes and windows of my soul that was experienced this, which went beyond chronological age. So I think we're we experience ourselves in different cultures and ages and races and, and lifetimes. And those are experiences, but those aren't the full totality of who we are. Those are experiences.

Brian Smith  8:34  
Yeah, yeah, that you just passed with. It's really interesting, because we think of ourselves again, as the age we are, right, I think of myself as 60 years. The 30s Right. But when we crossed back over, when you're a child, how does what's that perception? Like?

Jacob Cooper  8:51  
You know, I think we could think the word is like trick is a transmutate or transmigrate, whatever. But I think we, you know, like, for instance, in evidential mediumship readings, right, you know, loved ones will come over how they either want to show themselves or how we remembered them. But we're not stuck with that one particular, you know, age, I think we're timeless, ageless beings that goes beyond that. So, you know, it's others, we could, you know, manipulate or just kind of, not manipulate, but just kind of represent ourselves in different ways that they would understand or that we would want to be shown. But, you know, we're not just one page of the book that we're currently reading, you know, we're an entire encyclopedia, you know, yeah. But I think what's important, though, is, is is to allow yourself to have both that awareness that, yes, there's a greater part of myself. But I'm also here to do this human thing to and to be present in my life where I'm at, not not to be enslaved by it, but to be informed by some of those conditions and to allow yourself to work walk through and work with and make friends with yourself in this life.

Brian Smith  10:05  
Yeah, so. So as, as a three year old and you have this, you have this incredible experience, I just want to again, sure share some of your stuff with people haven't heard of before? How did that what was it like coming back? Did you were able to even tell people about it.

Jacob Cooper  10:22  
You know, I learned something new every day, not just for myself. I mean, the, you know, the scenes are exactly the same, right. But, you know, as we, I guess, evolve or time elapses, you're able to find more meaning from experience to degree, you know, the traumas settles down, and you're able to process more. Just last year, my father, who's also you know, a mental health therapist, and a clinical therapist who, you know, is not one of these woowoo guys, right? He's probably my, I mean, I'm my biggest skeptic, but he might be my second one. It's just become a very analytical left brain kind of family. But, you know, he said, you know, sure, I'll take credit for this, but I'm paraphrasing, but he said shortly after he had your near death experience, I came to him point blank, and I said, remember that day, you know, at the, at the park, when he went to the hospital and stuff like that, you know, something profound happened, I can't explain it now. It won't make sense to you now, either. So I won't try. But one day at will. And my dad isn't one to ever stretch, you know, any truth. It's like, whatever you see is what you get, like, he's not like one of these guys, you know, you know, and I love him. But you know, he quit, you know, tit for tat, I'll tell you what exactly. It was. So the point I'm trying to make is, I wasn't like, I was shouting off the rooftops, like the kid from heaviness for real sing, I had an end to E, where I kept it very close within, you know, and the reason is, is I just think the vernacular wasn't there to properly express it. But also, it was for myself to process so I could give it over to others. I mean, I would say we think that we're one or we say we're one. So what does this what does that exactly mean? Oneness isn't sameness, but oneness means at least for my end to eat that we're brothers and sisters keeper here in God's playground, much like when I had my end to eat in a playground. And so my end wasn't just about me, but it was really something that was to be expressed through meats, other people, it wasn't really so much about me to a degree. Yeah, but but within childhood, it was quite complex due to the traumatic brain injury that I had, due to suffocation. You know, my brain literally snapped in half at the time when I, you know, suffocated, I felt a large crack. And once you don't, my brain was opened, that's when I was able to really cross over and experience the other side. And so I know there's the same, the brain cracks open, God comes in. And that literally happened to me. And so, so from having that experience, my brain was very open, you know, my pineal gland was very open. And so I was able to have a lot of experiences in the other realm and have interdimensional awareness throughout, you know, my childhood. But at a certain point, it became very much of a nuisance, and I just kind of more so pushed it away. And it was just more of an annoying annoyance kind of thing. Because Satsang, you would just go around saying, I'm psychic, I'm intuitive, you just would see things, hear things, no things just like, kept these things away from me. I just want to live a life, you know? Yeah. So it was kind of annoying.

Brian Smith  13:35  
Yeah, that's, and I think it's, I know, it's a very normal response. And I know, children have nd ease. And again, us who haven't had these a lot of times will be jealous, right? It's like, I wish I had this. All right, don't realize that it can take decades to integrate these experiences for children, it could take, you know, multiple decades.

Jacob Cooper  13:54  
And I don't want to sugarcoat it. That was really the impetus. And we'll get into a little bit of writing my second book, the wisdom of Jacob's Ladder is, you know, you don't have to suffer or go through nd ease to have that awareness. I think people tune into these things, because there's a part of themselves, that has some degree of recall with what you're saying, you know, and there's a remembrance otherwise people wouldn't tune in. And sometimes people could be skeptical or push things away, you know, and that's, you know, at times defense, but they're still presently tuning in, because there's a part of them that you know, is able to remember what you're saying. And, you know, all we do is just tap people on the shoulder and just have a gentle reminder that you're more than you think. Yeah, yeah.

Brian Smith  14:38  
So how did this how did this impact your childhood, your your teenage years, these experiences and abilities that you had?

Jacob Cooper  14:48  
I wish I had my parents here because while I say is, you know, in every family you have this Yes, but I was. We ate the same food. We had the same home we had everything but I was by far the biggest outlier. You know, within my family and sure there's always the black sheep. And sometimes the black sheep ends up being the goat, right? No, but, you know, but I like that sign. But I was definitely a complicated kid. And I think trauma had a lot to do with it, you know, just the inability to put into words what I had. And just this kind of period of suffocation that not only lasted on my end te but also, in my frustration with this experience that I had, that it wasn't ready or able to just express to other people in the way that I wanted to, you know, and so just, you know, when I was lying lifeless, and the foreign people just seeing my body and calling me out to wake up when I suffocated. It kind of felt like that to a degree to where people were looking at me, for my body as a young infant, they were just seeing me with with the physical eyes, but I knew that I was more than just this infant or this child, I was, you know, a timeless soul. And this wasn't the full totality of who I was. And so having that recollection, made it a lot harder to just kind of fit in or just play the game, if you will, it just kind of ticking, you know, ticking the pill, and all of a sudden, it's hard to just come back. So it was quite complicated. I mean, I mean, I started it, you know, it's very empowering. But I started therapy at 10 years old. You know, I've been doing it ever since. But, and that's really why, you know, in a ways I became one just to give back what I was given in many ways, but I wouldn't wish it on anyone I wouldn't, it's not for it's not for, I think, really a lot has to do with the with with your life chart, and the pre plan of your life, I really think that this is something so profound, that it has to be selected, you know, by the higher intelligence in either side, it's not just a random experience that anyone could have, I think, you know, it's something that's charted and contracted, you know, in the pre birth planning. Definitely,

Brian Smith  16:59  
you actually, you just answered my next question, because I was gonna ask you how you felt about pre birth planning. And whether these things are planned or random, I believe in the ease are customized, they're there for certain people. It's the universal in the sense that we can all learn from them. But I think you're right, I think I don't think everybody can handle having one. Because they're really, really hard.

Jacob Cooper  17:23  
No, and everyone wants them and some people want self induced them to ease after I talk, and I just have to, you know, I hear that they want, you know, that but, you know, not everyone is willing to die to get to heaven and come back. Everyone wants to go to heaven, right? But not everyone wants to, is able to go through that, that pain or that suffering to get there. That's, you know, it's true, everyone wants to get to the top of the mountain, but, you know, to go through all that turmoil and experience that I had, not just in suffocating, but you know, having it when I did, it's, it's not for everyone to handle. But But I definitely view that there is a higher intelligence that is beyond this lifetime, you know, that nothing is random. And the most profound moments of our life are definitely, you know, have chart and higher intelligence, you know, from the higher realms behind them. Sometimes we think this life is just a random experience, and we experience suffering, it could just be like an endless, bottomless pit of, you know, just no rhyme or reason. But you know, I think when you're able to trust that There's more than meets the surface, and there's a purpose behind anything, you know, especially even suffering, you know, that you're able to have more of a guided life and trust life a bit more. But in my end, II, yes, I had that awareness. But I also had awareness after that, where I just have to kept on having recurring dreams of remembering, you know, just my life, you know, kind of like, little bit of the pre birth planning, you know, like you hear from what's like Rob Schwartz talks a little bit about it, but like the pre birth planning, and I would just have the same recurring image and, and dream and vision of my life charted before I was here. And so, yes, I do believe that. And, at least for me, my en te, I think is very closely related to a past life. Um, you know, and I know, it's a very sensitive topic, because we all are some degree affected by this on a personal, you know, or humidity or macro basis. But, you know, I'm not gonna say I committed because you don't commit cancer, you don't commit a heart attack, but I say I had a death by suicide in my last lifetime, you know, and that was, that's been read evidentially, by different intuitives prior to me getting any way public or saying anything about this. And the same description happened from a couple different people. But, you know, in that lifetime, I am Well to understand some of the clients that I help as a mental health therapist, but I just basically had my back against the wall. And I saw no hope in my situation, I just remember, you know, taking my own life and my own body could never take a life. But you know, I just made that decision. And I wasn't judged or condemned or anything like that. But I saw the end as something related to that, because I had a similar feeling of just endless suffering, there's no hope there was no any way out. So instead of holding on to the suffering, I allowed myself to surrender to a greater force with within myself and around myself. And that saved my life in this lifetime through surrendering. And it's my hope that others will see surrender as not throwing the white flag, but a great strength of empowerment and help in your life.

Brian Smith  20:52  
Yeah, can you talk a little bit more about that, because I just recently heard someone else say that, that because we think of surrender is as giving up as giving over your power to something else. So how did you see surrender?

Jacob Cooper  21:04  
I think surrender is giving into your power. You know, our we have we have a strength within us beyond our pain. In who we are, transcends pains, I think, what's what's inside of us, it's infinitely greater than the challenges that we meet in front of us. I mean, I think problems and challenges, you know, have their timeframes, no matter how tumultuous they are, they don't last forever, but we do. And so there's a part of us that kitchen said that, but there's also a love inside of us, that around us through loved ones on the other side, through the wisdom that we're capable of having. And through earth angels here on on this earth plane, I think everyone wants to walk 1000 miles, you know, in a monastery to find God, and you can, but sometimes we forget that we could find God in the most unlikely places, and they could be just our neighbors or loved ones, you know, we just don't sometimes we forget how special our situations are the people around us. So we take that sometimes for granted, or we don't know how much our loved ones could be capable of that could be the opposite shoe. But, you know, there's a lot more love around us. And sometimes we gloss over in this life, I think.

Brian Smith  22:21  
Yeah. So you mentioned soul planning. And I think you mentioned in your, in the EU, did you get some glimpses of what your life events were going to be coming up,

Jacob Cooper  22:30  
I had awareness that, you know, not just of past lives, and having reviews of of those lifetimes to understand the significance of some of those lifetimes, this lifetime. But I was able to have awareness of what I would be doing in this life, you know, and I saw myself, not just like, some pompous Speaker in front of people thinking like, I'm better than them, whatever. But rather, I was just a facilitator of a message, I was just, you know, there, but it was more about the message, it wasn't really so much about me, but really delivering this message and to see the change and others. And so in that moment, now recognize that the other side will always be there, but to sneak opportunity to give what I experienced other people is not always there. So to not have to wait to get there but to allow people you know, to live their truth until forever connect to it in this lifetime, bringing the hereafter to the here now. It was really bring heaven on earth to other people. And that's what near death experiences can do. We literally bring heaven into this life, through our experiences and through our stories that we tell other people.

Brian Smith  23:42  
Yeah, it's, uh, you know, I'm still wrapping my head around it. And I think a lot of people look at this, this earth as random suffering, right? It doesn't make any sense. There's, there's no guidance, there's no love when nobody cares about me. And I'm starting to realize there's like, these people are beings on the other side that are very involved in our lives, and they're very involved in guiding us. Is that true?

Jacob Cooper  24:09  
Absolutely. I mean, I have my near death experience. That's absolutely true. You know, but I love the Albert Einstein reference where he said, you know, kind of paraphrasing, but is the universe of giving and loving places a universe an ambivalent place? Or is the universe working against us? So our ability to formulate a box of viewpoints of the universe will really influence the lives that we live now. Because in a sense, you know, life is filled with suffering. But there's a life beyond suffering. And it's not just all that meets the surface. And there's purposes even for the most tumultuous, painful situations, and sometimes we're not privy to that even in this lifetime. But I think one day, it makes sense. And so I think, learning how to trust that you know, our own On uncertainties beyond our own inserts uncertainties, there are answers that are reasons and we're able to trust an intelligence may be greater than our own at the moment. So it doesn't mean that we agree with it in the moment. But it means that we're able to have a cushion that says, Alright, this, there's something to this a trust. So, you know, I think faith is not the absence of turmoil, but the ability to persevere even with it. So I think it allows yourself to have those human feelings, but also your ability to transcend those feelings and to trust, you know, in something else, as well beyond that, as well.

Brian Smith  25:40  
Yeah, absolutely. And I, I've said, I'm coming to this conclusion, more and more that probably the most important thing is that view, we excuse me, the view, we have the universe, the view, we have ourselves our purpose, you know, because people will say, when you tell people, okay, well, you decided to come here, right? And you decided to have some of these events, the first answer is always like, I would never decide to do this. This is why would I do this?

Jacob Cooper  26:09  
Yeah. And again, it's very Buddhist, it but I use it as a therapist, and I'm sure you do this with a client, you know, much of life have to do with perception, very little of it has to do with actually what's happening in the outside world. And so just utilizing cognitive reframing, or, you know, the wise mind kind of thing, where we have one portrayal towards what's happening, we process it on a raw human level, you know, but then we're able to just see, okay, what's the high road with this? What's a pathway to see this through another viewpoint, and we understanding reality is just how we view it and see and what we are able to allow ourselves to see, you know, because I don't know about you, but we've lived on this planet, you know, a bit of time, and this planet could feel like a totally different planet, when you have a different state of awareness. You know, and we just are able to have a different experience, you have to have a totally different experience based off your level of consciousness on this planet, and in what gear you're tapping into while you're living here.

Brian Smith  27:16  
Yeah, absolutely. And that's something that I've come to more and more realization. I mean, you could see two people looking at the same thing. You can see whatever we do opinion polls, is the country going in the right direction? Is the country going in the right in the wrong direction? The facts are the same, you know, but it's how people perceive them was what people choose to focus on. And as humans, I think we tend to focus on the negative I think that's a natural part of being a human being.

Jacob Cooper  27:43  
Yeah, no, that's true. I mean, because I mean, in a sense, though, we've been disempowered or not to knock the education system. I think it has, its its place and purpose. But we've been taught in a way that that regurgitation in a way is more important than integration of imagination, that answers were found, you know, outside of us, through our left brains versus sitting within and finding, you know, clarity and wisdom. So, you know, I think in a way, we've been born to be reliant on external stuff. And when the external stuff isn't working out, then people don't know what to do. So a lot of people are, are governed by living outside in, in their lives, versus tapping into the inside to influence the outside.

Brian Smith  28:33  
Yeah, very, very much so. And that's, that's what the perspective that you bring is the perspective that the nd bring flips on its head, that the true reality is actually within us. And everything that we perceive is temporary. I hesitate to use the word illusion, because it's real, because we perceive it as real, but it's not permanent. And it's not fundamental.

Jacob Cooper  28:58  
Oh, sure, you know, it's very real in the moment, you know, but it passes now, you know, and this chant sends it. But it's, it's hard, because, ya know, just a lot of people will start to internalize how the world sees them, you know, they were given names, or given ages and, and the world just see them as blank canvases in a way and just on the surface, and so people kind of push away the steep wisdom, they had them set themselves and hold on to, you know, this surface kind of viewpoint of themselves in the world. And they kind of hold on to that within their own ego. And that's, that's an issue. And I think there's a there's a forgetfulness of ourselves a spiritual being, and we just hold on to the human part in our experiences in this life and our stories. So, you know, I think real empowerment comes from not, you know, our life stories, but our ability to define our life stories. Yeah, What we decided to do, and that was my exact goal in the wisdom, Jacob's Ladder, where what happened to me was son that I walked into, but I walked what I walked out what if it is in my control, you know, and so not to be defined by the story, but to define the story. And I know, so many listeners in yourself are doing that, where we have these experiences. And those could easily define us and at times, they, they will, but we decided to find meaning at a time, you know, from those experiences and in value and wisdom, first moments,

Brian Smith  30:33  
to talk about the wisdom of Jacob's Ladder. Tell me something more about the book.

Jacob Cooper  30:38  
Yes, the book was released tonight, I didn't tend to release it on this day. But you know a little bit about myself, for those who aren't aware is I do come from an Orthodox Jewish family. And certainly I've, you know, if I look at a family picture, probably half of my family was killed in the Holocaust. And my book happened to come and Holocaust Remembrance Day. And if you're familiar with, you know, the Holocaust, they had days where they would just burn any book, burnt, written by someone who is Jewish, or any thought leader who, I guess went against the regime. And so less than 100 years later, to be a Jewish person, and to have a book come out on that day, was profound, it just was very allegorical for the near death experience, like, there could be death, but there's transcendence of it. There's transcendence of darkness, and life has a way of continuing and going on, you know, and stories will be told, but we just have to remember it much like the Holocaust, never forget, I think with significant moments in our life, never forget those to never forget who you are, where you come, where you came from, what you're connected to always remember that part of you, and the world could try to take that away, or rip that away. But, you know, we're the authors of our own life. And I think God created us because God loves stories. Yeah. And so that that's a quote by Eli was ill who's a Holocaust survivor. And, you know, so that's really what why I wrote this book is, you know, is within the power of story and how this story could hopefully help out others. But really, life after breath was more of my karma. That was the story of my end, where the wisdom Jacob's Ladder is a part of my dharma, the meaning the message, the essence, you know, how we could relate that experience, you know, into this life. And so that's where I really had to roll up my sleeves and sweat. I mean, I could rattle off what happened to me, that's easy, but we're sitting with within this and processing, that's real, the real work lives. And so I named it that title, not. It sounds a little bit pompous, I hear that, but it's not it really is more of a homage, you know, to biblical Jacob. In biblical Jacob, I think your name tells you, not just who you are, but a little bit of your potential to some degree. And, you know, biblical Jacob, who, you know, my name comes from originally, you know, had a dream when death was chasing him, or his brother, Esau was chasing him, you know, do the covenant and stuff like that, and Jacob rested in a place called Beth El or bait del or the house of God, which places that I had been to. And when he was rested, resting from fleeing for his life, you know, he had a dream of the angels up and down, running up and down the ladder, you know, and was able, eventually able to wrestle the, I guess, the angel of death, so to speak, and he transcended and became Israel, you know, it over a week overcame his demons in a way. So, I think, for me, at least, that's something that I could relate to with my name, you know, certainly, you know, death was running after me. But I was able to write back, you know, I was able to tap into something deeper, and I recognized, you know, death is something temporary, but life is eternal. And I remember that, right when the darkness was coming my way. And I was able to see the light, especially with no past the darkness.

Brian Smith  34:04  
Yeah, that's beautiful. That's, that's really well said. I appreciate your humility. But you said before we started recording, you said, I don't feel like I wrote this book. So explain that.

Jacob Cooper  34:17  
Yeah, I mean, you know, I think everything happens for a reason. But Brian, I started Community College locally, and I was in the lowest possible noncredit classes for writing and reading and community college. And I was the most pissed off, angered student because I just know that this wasn't me that I had more inside of myself. So I was able to use that anger. And I just wrote and wrote and read and wrote, but I was lucky to have someone in my first semester Community College who read my writing, you know, and she, herself was a teacher for What's his name? Is it something Feliciano he wrote that song Felice Nancy Dodd was it was Jose Feliciano, yes, she was, she was a teacher for the visually impaired. And he was one of her students. She was into all this stuff, right. But she literally helped the people who, you know, those who are visually impaired to see. But she did that in a metaphorical way to, she helped others see what they weren't seeing in their lives or maybe tapping into unseen worlds. So she was my definite guide. And she just looked at one of my writings and says, You're damn good writer, like, the outside world doesn't say that. But, you know, just because other people are seeing limitations, you know, that speaks very, that's more about them and what they're missing out on, you know, that has nothing to do with you. And I think it's true with all of us, if the world is seeing us through a limited lens. It has nothing to do with the real you, the real you is unlimited. It's It's beautiful. It's brilliant. It's not measurable and quantify, quantify. I mean, you could do that academically, but that that's not the totality of what's inside of us. That's a small part that they're looking for, for you to fit into what they're asking for, you know, so, from having that belief, you know, that, in a sense that, you know, I wasn't this kind of limited, dumb kid, but that I was Unlimited, made my life unlimited. Even when you see things that are impossible, things will be impossible, when you see things are doable or possible, there will be whatever you think you're right. So, but I think it goes again, with the power of belief and how, you know, for seeing things to be possible or not, and that will influence your life. So yeah, without her right, this book would have been written or so many people before me. So yeah, my name is on it. But it's more of an ODE and a homage to maybe some people who weren't able to write books or so my ancestors who, you know, were in concentration camps, and it just wonder about the potential of people who weren't able to tell their story, you know, beyond my ethnic or cultural reference, so many people were afraid to tell their stories are suppressed or weren't allowed to. And so this book is my books are written for all those who want to tell their stories, but couldn't, you know,

Brian Smith  37:22  
yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned earlier about, you know, us all being one, in a sense, and we talked about, we've got these outside influences on the other side that are helping us along. So I don't think any of us does anything on our own. We it's, that's, that's an illusion. It's one thing illusions about being here is that we are these autonomous, independent creatures?

Jacob Cooper  37:46  
Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's we're programmed, especially in our world, it's very capitalistic. And so when someone is down, and we get ahead, it's a good thing. But I don't think it works if it works for everyone. And that's really coincides with the life that I live in all my belief systems where everyone matters. And it's my hope that COVID taught us that we're wasn't just, someone was sick, and we could just push it away. If it doesn't directly affect us. What does it mean? No, I think in a way, it directly affected all of us. And hopefully, you know, that could lead to based on your foundation, it can lead to more compassion, more empathy, for not seeing others pain as outside, but something that we're all, you know, joined with, and we all have compassion towards. And so, you know, the work that I try to do is for people to really allow themselves to be a part of this world, so much of the world tries to push everything away, that doesn't fit their box. And, you know, I think the people who are struggling need it the most. And so, that's influenced my work as a mental health worker who works very closely with those who might have high risk are those of the LGBT, LGBTQ plus communities. And, you know, you know, a lot of the marginalized populations that many news media outlets are just trying to put their foot on their necks or kicking them to the curb, but when you're down, why do you need to be kicked? You need to be heard, you need to be validated, you need to be listened to, you know, not put pouring salt on a wound.

Brian Smith  39:20  
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, we have this really weird thing going on in our society because I think so many people your message, our message, the message resonates with them. They, they want to believe it, but then they look around them and they see it is competition there. There are no shortage of material stuff, and I do have to compete with you and it is a zero sum game. If I win, you lose. And so they're like, I want to believe this, but I'm not really, you know, saying it,

Jacob Cooper  39:54  
right. I think we you know, yeah, we have to understand what this life is about. You know, we're not here forever, but our experiences are and our meaning is, you know, that lasts. And so it's just a matter of what you view as reality. You know, I think I'm up, you're here to enjoy this world, but, you know, to be immersed in it, you know, but also to have a ripple effect that to me has ultimate currency on. So I think it depends, but to me, it's a means to an end. And it's nothing bad. If indulging, I mean, look behind me, I have all my fragrances and all that stuff. But that's stuff that keeps me passionate. I think when you're passionate, you invoke the spirit within yourself, that part of you, that brings you joy, and it uplifts you, but I think some people and again, it comes down to reality is reality, you know, finite, and if it's finite shirts, like push everything away, it doesn't have no rhyme or reason. Just get ahead, get rich, be selfish, being a boxer makes sense. But, you know, is there more than just this life, if you view that, then that will affect your decisions and how you relate to the world and where you what place you decide to come from. But I think the issue is not just with finances, I think with with a way of life, though, people live that way. You know, if it doesn't directly affect them, they'll push it away, they'll other it, it, they'll say it has nothing to do with me go away have nothing to do with it. If you're not like me, you know, screw off. That's the way a lot of people are. And I think in a way, like I said before, oneness does not mean sameness. And I think we have diversity, so that we could see beyond the surface, we could see the unifying lens, but we could also be more open, you know, universally, and I think we incarnate, you know, in different cultures to expand our soul to understand what it's like to live as such, what it's in, I think, to different cultures and different lives. It's very expensive. And so that's why I think older souls are more universal. You know, they could go anywhere, and people could connect to them, because they have, you know, so many lifetimes and other cultures and civilizations that they could connect and find that part of themselves and other people, no matter where they are, no matter what language they relate to them in their language is love. Yeah, that's universal.

Brian Smith  42:15  
Yeah, well, it's a good point. I hadn't really thought about it that way. So you do a lot of past life regressions with people. So what what purposes that serve remembering past lives, because most of us don't remember anything about past lives?

Jacob Cooper  42:31  
That's a good question, Brian. I mean, you know, my near death experience, like I said, Before, I just remember that there's so much more than what we are holding on to as reality that is still there. But we at times forget, and sometimes it could trickle down to some degrees at certain points of our life. But you know, I don't know about you, but what's the number one question that were asked outside is outside of what happens when we die, it's what's my life's purpose? You know, I get that all the time. And so, for many of us, we've been taught that our, our life's purpose was to get ahead in a way and to make more and to have more things, and that's our purpose, you know, to be financially astute, and all that is good. But once you understand that, you're that you are not a body, experiencing yourself a body, but you're a soul, you understand that this purpose in life goes far beyond the material, you know, this is an experience of our inner being. And so past life, regression is a great way for people to really be, I would say, detectives, in a way, and to look for clues as to not totally definite, like, this is the one reason why I'm here. But these are possibilities, you know, that we could reference upon that, that do resonate within ourselves as to why we're here. What's our purpose? I don't know, think purpose is just one thing, like, this is your one it's not, you know, dimensional, we're multi dimensional beings. So no, but I think just for the average person, the purpose is to be present on this journey, you know, to see the little things as the big things, you know, and just to kind of walk into this world, without leaving the eyes and ears of God, I think that's in our inner being. And so to look at world through curiosity, through openness, the ability to see beauty beyond the surface, you know, is thinking and acting like God to me, you know, because when I connected to God, God was, wasn't looking down on me. He was looking up at me and I was looking, you know, with unconditional love and acceptance. And so the more that we do that, the more that we don't have to wait to meet God, the more that we are forever interconnected to it. You know, and it's remember that's a part of us that never left us that's inside of us. So I think our highest highest self is forever connected to that. But passive aggression I think is a is is a great way to give back to, especially to those people who want these entities or should want those experiences to remind themselves that kind of like the Wizard of Oz that they had the power inside of themselves the whole time. They don't have to like, go 1000 miles an hour or to earn, earn, you know, something to get something that it's always there. I think the interfering part is our program. Like, it's like we have to sweat and turmoil, you know, to get something but yeah, it's like that Michelangelo would say, just chip away at the masterpiece that's always been there. He said some things that I don't agree with. But yeah, that part is true.

Brian Smith  45:31  
Yeah. Well, again, you know, it's interesting, because you talked about life purpose. And being a life coach, you know, people ask me about that, let's find our life purpose. And we typically think of things. It's just like the term soul contract. I don't really like that term, because it sounds so legalistic, and it sounds capitalistic, right? But people think about their life purpose, and say, Okay, what am I supposed to do? What's my, what's my living with? And I think there is a more universal life purpose, as you said, is to experience life to enjoy and prove our consciousness.

Jacob Cooper  46:04  
Right? That we're not a human doing. We're a human being. Yeah. And I say, I think it's in that beingness, you know, in that presence, you know, living with a mind of the East, in a world of the West, right? You know, living with like, a sacred awareness and in a presence in our life, I think that, you know, is important, but I found the best answer, someone says, What's the meaning of life? And the answer to give life meaning or to find meaning?

Brian Smith  46:35  
Yeah, yeah.

Jacob Cooper  46:37  
So we're looking for so much meaning outside of ourselves, but rec, I think, to me, the greatest meaning of spirituality comes from the lives that we live itself, you know, our experiences, the depth of our experiences, the beauty of our experiences. Yeah. To me, that's, that's the most spiritual thing that we could do. You know, or have in a way?

Brian Smith  46:56  
Yeah. And and the more older I get, the more I look around, the more I realize that's all that's going to last right. As we keep saying everything else here is temporary. So we get the job, we get the house, we get there, whatever, all those things fade away.

Jacob Cooper  47:13  
Oh, sure. I mean, I think, you know, at times, cinema, or movies could really speak I know, I referenced the Wizard of Oz. But for people who are really trying to understand what we're vibing to, you know, just watch the movie, big fish. I don't know if you've ever seen that, because it's a it's a wonderful movie. But I don't want to give the whole movie away. But there's just one scene, which, you know, I cry every time but, you know, there's a funeral scene. But then at the funeral, you know, the man says, you know, there have awareness of all the people that was impacted by this man. And it sees the changes from from all the people who were impacted by this man, there's like, a really beautiful music playing and you just are able to understand the ripple effect. And I think that's what this is all about, like, you just, we just don't know what impact we have, you know, even with this with a gentle smile, or, but but, you know, in a sense, I think, what's what, what better praise to say that the world is a better place, because you're in it and cannot be the same without you, in it to get you out of it. So, you know, I think that's the purpose is, you know, we're here for reason, the world can't exist without you, in many ways you make it we're all part of this unique note in the symphony of the universe.

Brian Smith  48:31  
But unique, not separately. That's beautiful analogy. And that's again, that's why I love I think that's why NB indies are so popular for people to talk about my most watched episodes are people that have in the ease, because we all we hear these universal truths that we want to hold on to, and we want to remember, and we want to know that, you know, even though I'm one of 8 billion people on the planet, right now, I do have a unique role, you, you have a unique role, and we are touching the people around us, I may not be able to affect all 8 billion people on the planet. But I can have a lot more impact than I think I do.

Jacob Cooper  49:09  
Undeniably, we sell ourselves short in so many ways with just how we see ourselves, but we just don't know what impact we have what we mean to people and so many times, I mean, I myself struggle with this all the time. And I mean, I've been therapy for it. Still to this day, and no shame to it, but we just chopped ourselves up like crazy and we just sometimes don't recognize like, wow, you know, how much you know, our words could impact others and how beautiful we can be and so, you know, right? I had my N D E and I was I was taking my own life away. But I think my duty was to remembering that life is about giving life to others. You know, we were given this great gift for ourselves, not just hold on to but to let go of and so in others need that life. You know, we could in our own way Give it to others. And that's, to me the embodiment of God. We're all creators, with our words, with the actions, you know, and I think we're all artists of the mind, you know, you know, people think of artists is just drawing a picture. But to me, I think we're artists of the mind with how we see the world. And what Canvas is it? Do we want to draw each and every day? Yeah, no. So think life is really about being an artist of life itself in the mind.

Brian Smith  50:27  
Wow, I love that. I completely agree. I think we're all little fractals of, of God's use that word or creator, source, whatever word you want to use. We're all made in that in the Bible says we're made in God's image. And we are all creators. And even though just people think of creative, like making art or making music, we're creating lives. We're creating our life, we're creating the lives of people around us. We are in this interactive symphony. Right. And I was talking with someone the other day, you know, any, any interaction with another consciousness that is mutually beneficial is a success. If we come in contact with another person, we both come out of it, we're that that's the kind of stuff that people in life reviews tell us people have entities and that's what my life really was about.

Jacob Cooper  51:11  
Right. Right. But I think it's important to allow ourselves to be human too, right? I mean, certainly, in my professional career, geez, I've had very human moments that have been very sobering stuff that I learned from, but stuff that makes me so I think a lot of people stop this because they're like, Alright, I'm not congruent, exactly with everything that I'm saying. And I think if we, you know, our words we ascribe to we really aspire to. But if we were to tap into each and every one of one of our words every day, I think would be an angel. You know, and ideally, it's to walk the talk. And that's why each and every day, we try to get closer and closer to our truth. Not to be separate from it, but to but to become unified with it. But I think a lot of people give up on the self because like, who am I? I'm not perfect. I've done I've done this, I've done that. I've done that. So I can't do this. And no, I think it's allowing yourself to be human and understanding what what that comes with?

Brian Smith  52:07  
Yeah. Well, I always say to people, you know, if we set these challenges up for ourselves, and if we always succeeded, they wouldn't be very good challenges, you know, so sometimes we're not going to be that we're not going to be that perfect. And we, and even as we get better than two challenges can progressively get harder, because we're at, we're pushing up against harder things. But

Jacob Cooper  52:28  
so, I mean, I'm a big sports guys, you know, I know you are too. But you know, it's like you think of the biggest alpha in their field, right? I mean, maybe outside of arguably MJ like Kobe was that person, they were twin flames to me, like very much cut from the same cloth that Kobe and MJ, right? But, uh, Kobe was once asked what he thought about failure. So what is failure? I was just like, floored. Kobe was saying that. He says, if you fail on Monday, but grow from it Thursday, how is there ever such thing as failure? Yeah, it's true. You know, so like, we wouldn't be who we are without our own mistakes or on Miss judgments. But those things can make us so much greater. It's kind of like a slingshot. You know, we take a step back, we propel forward. Exactly. Some people just give up on themselves. And they just say, alright, I've done this, I've done that. My life's over, I can't try to recreate or change, you know, it's just undamaged goods and can't live like that. You got to forgive yourself, and you gotta move on and just allow yourself to be you and let go of all the self judgement, you know?

Brian Smith  53:38  
Yeah, absolutely. I think that, again, my perception is we are just as as this human part of me I am a fractal even of a greater part of me that that's still in the non physical. And but we do, we kind of stripped down and we come into this environment, and it's and it's tough, man, it's, it's challenging, and we are going to fail and we're going to stumble, we're going to get caught up in the illusion. We're going to sometimes forget, you know, we're gonna we're gonna get it, you know, things are going badly, we lost her job, whatever, it's gonna be like, This place sucks.

Jacob Cooper  54:12  
But that's important is to be real. I mean, at least for me, like the spiritual teachers that I describe to the very real themselves like I was once you know, listening to Neale Donald Walsch, someone who I really connect to, and he was talking about, I think Eckhart Tolle on stage and he's like, he walks the talk, I, I tried to but I, but I'm not that you know, but to me, at least, that that stuck with me that sign that you could relate to. And I think every you know, and close to this himself, like, whatever is inside of me is inside of you. And I think it's important as a teacher, to also allow yourself to be transparent to vulnerable and for others to see parts of themselves and you too, and to not to take away the pedestal because no one is better. We're all a part of God's creations. You know, it's not like If you have a hierarchy or whatever, it's everyone has significance. And if you're not seeing that, then it's it's missing, we're missing out, we got to find a way to cultivate that potential.

Brian Smith  55:10  
You know, it's funny, you mentioned, you mentioned Jesus, and I grew up as a, as a fundamental, evangel, Christian and was taught that Jesus was perfect and everything. And I remember when the movie, The Last Temptation of Christ came out, which is, before you were born, probably. But this movie comes out the Last Temptation of Christ, and it showed Jesus as like human, you know, and he had doubts. And he was, you know, he was tempted by women and, and I'm like, I thought, if Jesus wasn't tempted, as Jesus didn't have doubts, Jesus always remembered his divinity, then he wouldn't have had a human experience. He couldn't relate to us.

Jacob Cooper  55:48  
Now, I mean, that's just, we could go all day, like, there's so much it. And again, that box is filled with so many people's prior worldview, even on God that God has not. Judge Judy, God has not, you know, your parents are a principle. We assign authority figures with the ultimate authority, you know, people who think that's a figure of authority, but to me in our country, like I just said, Guy was, you know, Jesus was not born to Chick fil A, you know, it's not like, like, I don't know what like is he wasn't, you know, he's probably everything than a lot of people just don't like, you know, but if you look at the honest facts, like, you know, he was socialistic, he was, you know, it's given to the poor, you know, he was Middle Eastern, it's probably more Jewish than I am. So like, wasn't like a lot of what, you know, these kind of, I guess, the European influence depicts, as in,

Brian Smith  56:40  
right. But that idea of what we ascribe as perfection, and like I said, when I, when I think about Jesus, in particular, because you know, the Christian teachings, he's God incarnate. I'm like, well, that's not fair. He couldn't have been, he couldn't have been tempted, He couldn't have been any of these things. If he didn't forget who he was, I think that's part of what we're doing here. And even even though you've had the experience that you've had, and still have a memory of it, I'm sure there are times when you get caught up in the illusion to

Jacob Cooper  57:13  
all the time, I mean, I'm driving and I flipped the bird and all the time. And there's a saint by rom Das, right, he says, You think you're good, just ask your family, you know, family, they'll be like, you know, the, like, roll your eyes, you know, but, you know, they'll keep you grounded in a way. And they'll allow you to remind yourself to be human, you know, to remember that it's okay to be human. That's why we're here. You we're here to have both, you know, and we can move the needle at times when one is getting to over balanced, but to have a balance of both those parts of ourselves, I think is a beautiful place to live in. And like I said, both things can be true at the same time, it doesn't have to be, I'm a spiritual being. And that's it. And I can't be human or I'm a human being and I can't be spiritual. You we could both be a spiritual being having these unique human experiences.

Brian Smith  58:02  
Yeah, that you just hit on. I think that that's the thing. It's, we are here to have this human experience. We're not here to escape it. We're not here to bypass it. We are here to experience all the emotions. And I was talking with a guy one time I was interviewing for my podcast. And he was taught that the purpose of meaning of life and all the different things we said, we come here to learn, we come to have experiences, we come here to grow. We know whatever he goes to, we come here to have a feeling of abandonment. And I said, Wait a minute, I've never heard him say that before. Because yeah, we come here because we're so connected. On the other side, we don't know what it's like to be independent, and we can't really grow because there's always everything available to us right now. Every resource is available. So we actually come here to experience that abandonment.

Jacob Cooper  58:49  
It's interesting. Yeah. I mean, I think in the moment, lobby cry, because I think we, it's an adjustment when we're born. But I think it's also a feeling of like a separation from not just the wound of our mother, but the womb of God. And I think that's a very big trauma for a lot of people that we don't recognize such dramatic that is to take from this place of, you know, just this womb energy or this unconditional love energy of God where, you know, there is no negative tivity it's all beauty that we come into this world, it's different and certainly having my nd I had like a rebirth period in that sense, where, you know, yeah, I was born but also to me felt the same way where it was just like a rebirth period, out of the womb of God into this world. You know, and so that's why many indie years, you know, celebrate their actual nd birthday as a birthday. It's rebirth. You know, but it's a it's a weird kind of thing, because when we're born, we sob and cry when we leave others cry. Yeah, it's like we can't live in a way without God but others recognize that God within us that they saw, and they can't live without that divinity, that part of that divinity,

Brian Smith  1:00:06  
you know, which just said just reminded me of the Genesis story when they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. And again, the Christian interpretation is original sin, God punish them. And I've good friend is Jewish and tell me correct me if I'm wrong, but he said the his interpretation he had been taught anyway was that was man coming into wisdom, and leaving that idyllic place and kind of striking out on his own to, you know, be challenged and and to grow. So it's not so much a punishment as as a opportunity to grow.

Jacob Cooper  1:00:37  
Yeah, I think in a way a part of us almost gets bored with that, like, we crave the challenge. We crave the resistance, you know, that's like growth in a way without the resistance. You know, I think there's growth in this side. Sure. But I think there's more. i This is, there's more weights on this barbell here. Yeah. I think, a lot more resistance here.

Brian Smith  1:00:59  
Yeah. Well, we were talking about sports analogies earlier. And you think I was just giving a talk the other day, and I was like, I love football. Right. And I think about you think about how silly is a football game, you get people they strap on pads that go out, they go out, they oppose each other in a totally artificial conflict. But we love that we love watching people push themselves to the limits.

Jacob Cooper  1:01:23  
I think though, that sports is evolving, in a way. I think there's a lot. I mean, we, I think it's like a part of us likes the illusion to be into it. Right? That there's us against them. You know, but I think you know, at times that plug is pulled and people remember that there's one team I know, for instance, where you're from, you know, at the Buffalo Bills game, you know, against the bangles wrapped by you. Geez, I'm forgetting the stadium, but in the Bengals stadium, you know when?

Brian Smith  1:01:54  
Or no Pecos stadium, but Paul Brown stadium? Yeah.

Jacob Cooper  1:01:57  
Yeah, you know, when their safety went down, you know, everything stopped, we just recognize geez, we're fighting over people bleeding in different jerseys. And it's life or death. And it's not, you know, and we just remembered, know how this isn't life or death that to how really, you know, it's about one team, you know, and we're all just connected. And that was just a moment of healing to me. And so, I think sport is great if you're able to understand that it's that life or death. And we're all really on the same team at the end of the day. Right. And but but hopefully through not just wins, but through losses, there could be growth, and we could help out each other through the resistance that we bring to grow. Yeah, no,

Brian Smith  1:02:42  
that is an excellent point. I'm glad you I'm glad you said that. Because I tell people against the kinds of people like you shouldn't like football you know, your your spiritual practice or whatever you shouldn't like football is a terrible game. I'm like, but I do like the forgetting that the Pittsburgh Steelers are not really my enemy. I like I like to root against the Steelers now, when that's something that happens is Mr. Hamlin, that's when we go to that next level, right? So it's just like being here. We come here and we play this game. That's the game we call life. And we, we feel like we're separate from other people. It's us versus them. But at that next level, we know we're all one. And when bar went down, it was just like, it was a beautiful moment. You're right. It's a beautiful reminder of how everybody came together. And there was no

Jacob Cooper  1:03:28  
bangles pretty much a bit outside of Skip Bayless. Everyone was on the same page in that situation. But it was skips old school and I get it. But you everyone, you know, it was about life and death. And that's what people reminded that this is just a game. It's not life and death. And so we don't want to be enslaved by the game of football, but informed of like, what it is. Right. But being able to see beyond that, and that's life itself. Isn't that life itself, though? Right, right. You know, we have these experiences, but we're not like totally defined by them. They're just experiences and we're able to see past through them while we're experienced. And that's a beautiful place to be in.

Brian Smith  1:04:03  
Yeah. And that's I love manual Swedenborg. And he talks about correspondences and everything in natures of correspondence. And if we can take things like the game of football, and have that extraction, and then apply that to the game of life and say, Yeah, we're here and we're playing the game and we're doing all this and this, but ultimately, we're all on one team and ultimately, nothing is life or death. I love what you said earlier, but you gave up. I think you said you you gave up your life which is you can't really give up your life. It's like you gave up your body.

Jacob Cooper  1:04:33  
Yeah, my body. Right and I know you have this saying and I'm paraphrasing but something like you know, I know I'm not giving the statement justice Brian but something like you could plant a body but you can ever plant a soul or the soul is reborn from the body in a way you know that the soul you know, just because you might put a body Six Feet Under, that does not mean that the soul will too and I think that's a very important view. viewpoint regarding grief because if we hold this picture of life after death with just the body hanging out, six feet under, I could see that as a very bleak fear. But you know why in God's name with the body hanging out in the six feet under the cemetery, if it could be anywhere like it, you know, so it doesn't make sense. But again, when we see ourselves as just a body, then that's all identify us. But we see ourselves beyond it, we can understand that there's a possibility of life beyond this body, within this body and beyond this body. Yeah,

Brian Smith  1:05:33  
well, it's really I think, for me, I view the body more now, like a receiver. I view the brain as more of a receiver more of a filter, actually. And I And you mentioned movies earlier, I think, Hollywood, I think a lot of that stuff is channeled, and why I have a lot of problems with the movie Avatar. One of the things I loved about the movie was the idea that, you know, you could be in one place and you're operating as body that's not really like who you are. And that's, that's how we I think when we're here we are, we are operating this body, from our higher perspective, our souls are occupied, it's a virtual reality we get, we have all these little sensory inputs, and we feel like we're sitting in the room, but we're not really sitting in the rooms that we feel like we're in which the matrix I think that excellent job with.

Jacob Cooper  1:06:20  
I mean, the matrix and I think avatar definitely referenced in like, a lot of different, you know, higher awareness books and stuff like that. But absolutely. I think when you're coming from this creative place, it's not coming from you, but through you. And you know, cinema is a great platform to reach people. I really do believe but I think the Wizard of Oz to me at least, that's a very, very higher otherworldly movie. Absolutely. And it just really tells you that home was within, and sometimes we're having this life and it's a dream, but then become back in a way, you know, that this is all just, there's an illusion within life to at the same time. But home is within, you know, the powers within Star Wars, the same thing I know, George Lucas had a near death experience himself, but what does he say the forces within I just recently? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, a lot of you know, a lot of people, you know, he wouldn't have think have had near death experience. They're not as public with it. But they speak a little bit about it, you know, Sharon Stone and Tracy Morgan and Elizabeth Taylor, some, you know, another new to Plato. You know, people thought Carl Jung people, you know, it was said that, so, it's nothing new. But I think it's getting a lot more traction now, as I think the medical community and scientific community is an ally, not an enemy of this stuff. You know, and is really, and I think as medical advancement is increasing, that incubation period is increasing, too. And so people are able to have these more readily available. And I'm interested to see though, tomorrow, Hamlin had one because I mean, I know that was a technical one, but as time goes on to see if he experienced anything, because that, I mean, if you could say Jamar wouldn't have had that if he was just at his home, but quite honestly, if he wasn't at a, at a football field with medical staff around him, this happened asleep, like, you know, he wouldn't have been, that was in many ways, the best place for him to be right. It was, yeah, it just around all support on deck, you know, versus in asleep with no one around him. But that was a medical miracle, and a miracle, you know, spiritual miracle to

Brian Smith  1:08:37  
Yeah, yeah, it's one of those things I think was meant to happen. I think it opened up a lot of people's eyes to, you know, to a lot of things and we saw a man die and be resurrected.

Jacob Cooper  1:08:48  
Right in front of us and national TV. Yeah. But but you also saw, like, the illusion of how it was us versus them. And it was just one team. You know, and and Kobe is passing right people were, you know, on the sport, you know, on the basketball courts, and it just, you saw athletes sobbing and crying and hugging each other. It just reminds you like, what life is really about. We're not against each other with each other. And it created more oneness. Yeah, you know, in, you know, the most divisive kind of things like us versus them and we're able to find oneness, you know, you know, beyond that illusion. That's beautiful.

Brian Smith  1:09:25  
What Jacob remind people of both of your books, the names and where they can get them and where they can contact you. Yes,

Jacob Cooper  1:09:33  
so my two books are both available on Amazon, the wisdom Jacob's Ladder, which just came out a month ago. And life after breath. My first book is available on Amazon and paperback and Kindle, trying to get audio. It's a little technical with my publisher, but they could find me there. And for those interested in inquiries or social media following or appointments, you could find me on my website at Jacob L. cooper.com. That's Jacob l cooper.com. And there hasn't been an email that I don't think I've ever gotten not gotten back to yet. And I try to live up to that every day. So

Brian Smith  1:10:09  
it's good to get thanks for being here.

Jacob Cooper  1:10:12  
Brian, thank you so much for having me keep up the amazing work and it's such an honor. I can't tell you how much respect and admiration and love they have for you

Brian Smith  1:10:22  
every day. All right. Well, I'm excited to not I have a great new resource. It's called gems, four steps to move from grief to joy. And what it is it's four things that I've found that I do on a daily basis to help me to navigate my grief. And I'm offering it to you free of charge. It's a free download. Just go to my website, www dot grief to growth.com/gems G m s and grab it there for free. I hope you enjoy it.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai