I greatly enjoyed my conversation with Zoey Greco. She is a fascinating young woman who has embraced her intuitive nature and is dedicated to helping you embrace yours.
Born in New York City, raised in rural Connecticut, evolved in Southern California, and now rooted in Arizona, Zoey Greco is an obvious amalgamation of the influences she has experienced in her personal journey.
As an Aries sun, Cancer Rising, and Sagittarius moon, Zoey is a striking balance of both passion and compassion. When Zoey isn’t sharing her gifts as a Spiritual Guide, Intuitive Development Mentor, or Sound Healing facilitator, she can be found busting out of escape rooms with her husband, enjoying the indulgent pleasures of fine dining with friends, or playing her sitar alone in her studio. Zoey’s more philanthropic focuses are centered on intersectional inclusion and diverse representation, sustainability, animal welfare, and reproductive rights.
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Now that you're here at Grief 2 Growth, I'd like to ask you to do three things. The first thing is to make sure that you like click Notifications, and subscribe to make sure you get updates for my YouTube channel. Also, if you'd like to support me financially, you can support me through my tip jar at grief to growth, calm, it's grief, the number two growth.com/tip jar or look for tip jar at the very top of the page, or buy me a coffee at the very bottom of the page and you can make a small financial contribution. The third thing I'd like to ask is to make sure you share this with a friend through all your social media, Facebook, Instagram, whatever. Thanks for being here. Close your eyes and imagine what are the things in life that cause us the greatest pain, the things that bring us grief, or challenges, challenges designed to help us grow to ultimately become what we were always meant to be. We feel like we've been buried. But what if like a seed we've been planted and having been planted, who grow to become a mighty tree. Now, open your eyes. Open your eyes to this way of viewing life. Come with me as we explore your true infinite, eternal nature. This is grief to growth. And I am your host, Brian Smith. Hey there everybody. This is Brian back with another episode of grief to growth and today I've got with me Zoe Graco and a Greco. I'm sorry. So he Greco. I want to read her bio, and then we'll have a conversation like we always do. Zoe was born in New York City. She was raised in rural Connecticut and she evolved in Southern California. And she's now rooted in Phoenix, Arizona. She's an obvious amalgamation of the influence she's experienced in her personal journey. She's an Aries, Sun cancer rising and Sagittarius moon, I'm going to ask you to tell me what that means because I don't know. She's a striking balance of both passion and compassion. When she doesn't share gifts as a spiritual guide, intuitive, developmental or sound healing facilitator, she can be found bursting out of escape room with her escape rooms with her husband, enjoying the indulgent pleasures of fine dining with friends or playing with her sitar alone in your studio. Her more philanthropy, philanthropic focuses are centered on intersectional inclusion, and diverse representation, sustainability, animal welfare, and reproductive rights. So with that, I want to welcome to great degrowth, Zoe Greco. Thank you so much, Brian, I appreciate it. And I'm really excited to be here. I feel like the the focus of your work, what you do, and what you share is really, really important. I think that grief and the process of grief and experiencing our emotions, is one of the most important things that we can do on a healing journey. And as someone who grew up and experienced a very severe traumatic event, in my early teens, I spent about the next decade not grappling with my grief and my emotions and my feelings around that experience, regardless of you know, the attempts on behalf of my parents to try and remedy that. Sometimes we're not able to feel grief until we're ready. And I think offering examples to people of what it's like to experience grief to really be in your grief. And also to transcend your grief to know that there's something on the other side of it is a really beautiful example that people need to see. Because when you're inside of it, you don't always know that it can end you don't always know that it's not permanent, you don't always know that. It's a temporary state of being. And I think that what you're offering people is extremely significant and transformative. Well, thanks. Yeah, that's what I believe also, having gone through the event that I went through my, the passing of my daughter, I know that feeling of like, this is it, this is the end of my life, it's never going to get any better. I can never get out of it. So that's why I like having people on like yourself that can help people just offer hope to people. And I was gonna ask you about your you're an intuitive. And so was this something that was since birth, it's something that developed maybe after that event, or how did that come about? Yes. This is my natural state of beings is how I came to the earth. And it's interesting because I especially in relationship to the topic of grief and empathy. I held on to my intuitive abilities throughout my lifetime, which is not super common. We're all born with powerfully intuitive gifts. We're all born deeply connected to where we just came from and where we will eventually go back to but society, our upbringing, religion, a lot of different things, close us in and create parameters that separate us from our own ability and our own spiritual self and Luckily, I had influences around me that supported the idea that even as a child, I was an intuitive being. And I also feel really blessed that that wasn't capitalized upon, inappropriately or kind of taken advantage of it was just I was, I was able to exist as I was, which is a huge, powerful blessing. However, I have been in the last couple of years as I came into my 30s been reclaiming the deep emotion that comes with being an intuitive person. And as you even as you just said, The words the passing of my daughter, I immediately was welling up with tears. And there is a specific gift called Claire empathy, where you can feel other people's feelings. And in my work as an intuitive person, and as a person throughout my life, I've always been extremely sensitive to other people's feelings, able to feel them as if they're my own, even when they're unspoken. So I can kind of be in a room with someone. And without even talking to them, I can feel whatever's going on inside of their emotional body. It's just one of the gifts that I possess and work with. But it's been extraordinarily helpful to me, in helping people to experience grief process, grief move through traumatic events, to be seen through eyes of complete unconditional compassion. I think that's something that we really don't experience very often. And people come to an intuitive session, at least with me, not necessarily these days focused on like, what are my What should my lottery numbers be, but rather, here's my vulnerability, here's my pain, here's my wounds, here's where I'm suffering, help me see where I can go, how I can make the best choices to come out of this place and get into a place that is in alignment for myself. And being able to feel other people's feelings really helps me to sit with them in their experience. So that a they're not alone. But be they feel seen, they feel validated, which often we don't receive in life. So we've kind of always been able to do that. This has always been who I am. And even when I tried to deny it, or remove myself from this path, the path pulled me back in, I actually went to college and studied gender and Asian culture. And I'd also been interested in potentially a path in journalism, kind of really focusing on the atrocities of the world, bringing them to light creating awareness around things through writing. And the universe had very direct different plans for me, and here I am today serving souls through my intuitive gifts. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I agree with what you said, it's a conclusion I've come to I guess, over the course of the last several years that we are all born, still connected to the other side. And after having two daughters, and watching them grow up and, and hearing some of the things that they said when they were young, you know, and everybody could think about, you know, our kids saying things like, talking about imaginary we call imaginary friends, or things that they've seen, or we just believe the worlds of magical place. And eventually the world kind of, for most of us kind of takes us out of that. And I know, the reason I asked you about your your traumatic event earlier in your life is because I know a lot of mediums who are intuitive, and a lot of them actually come from pretty tragic backgrounds or something about that, that seems to keep that connection to the other side open. I guess it's out of necessity. You know, there's kind of a movement right now, there. First of all, let me just say, I've been in the spiritual industry since my early 20s. It's been like about a decade now that I've been doing this, and it's a very fluid changing landscape. It's a very evolving landscape being in the spiritual industry community field. And I would say that right now, we're experiencing a movement where there is a, almost like, a mockery of empathetic people are, like empaths in general, which I find super interesting. And I, you know, try not to personalize or like take in too much. I think we're all entitled to explore our feelings around things. But I've been really interested in this movement, because basically, there's this idea that that as an empath, you develop this ability because you experienced trauma or an unpredictable parent or some kind of like unpredictable source and you always had to be on your toes. And I think that that can be very true. I absolutely think that there's validity to that. I also think that there is a validity to the idea that that certain people are able to be sensed remain connected to supernatural ability. Ladies, and I do believe that there's crossover between those two populations. But I also really believe firmly that, at least for myself, I was like this before my trauma. And actually, my traumas disconnected me from my abilities, because I was already so full of my own feelings of pain of sadness, anger, that I wasn't able to take on anything from the outside world, like, I really felt like I had to shut down what I was already able to do in order to protect myself. I don't actually. So I'm a I host my own podcast as well. And I don't discuss my traumatic event because it impacts people who are too young to grapple with the information. Sure. And so I keep it privately to myself, but essentially, I've experienced a lot of trauma around my relationship with my dad and choices that he made in his life, that caused a separation in my family. And the way that occurred, was deeply traumatizing and painful. And although I, you know, I want to just say I didn't experience any sort of like physical trauma from my father, a lot of emotional trauma from my father, and 10 years later, we are in a really beautiful, healthy, happy place. And even so, the trauma lives on and it I see it show up in all sorts of things. Luckily, it no longer manifests in my marriage, which was a thing that was going on in the early stages of our relationship when we were just dating. But I do believe very firmly that not only does it continue to teach me, like I no longer controls me, but it teaches me It invites me into opportunities of growth and self knowledge, which I really am grateful for. It also gives me this incredibly deep power. And we all possess this through our trauma, to be able to understand other people's experiences on a deeper level, try experienced trauma as very unifying, when, when we can exist in it consciously when we exist in unconsciously it can be very isolating, it can be very separating. But I do believe that as we develop a better relationship to our experiences, it can be extremely unifying. And even if someone comes to me for session that hasn't had the exact same experience that I've had, there's a frequency to each experience that we move through. And when you've experienced that, that thing yourself, you can recognize the frequency in someone else more easily. So for instance, people who have lost a child, people who have lost a spouse, people who have gone through sexual trauma, these experiences, although very unique to each person hold a frequency. And we can feel that frequency between each other. And it's actually one of the reasons that we experienced, you know, traumatized people kind of being drawn to each other, and not always able to, like have a healthy relationship, I definitely experienced that most of if not all of my boyfriend's and life before my husband had also had daddy issues. And we like really bonded through the frequency of daddy issues like you feel familiar, does your dad mess you up, or mine too. And it was, you know, the thing that unifies? And yet when we were living through those wounds, unconsciously our union was was toxic, unhealthy, but when we exist consciously in our trauma, we can we can recognize that frequency, and instead really sit with someone and go. I know I know what you've been through, I know what you're feeling. I felt it myself. And I like I see you and what you're feeling. And there's something so powerful in knowing that someone else in the world can understand even just a little bit, what you've what you've gone through. And it's just one of the other ways that Spirit helps us to come back into union to experience oneness and to experience each other. We can experience each other through joy and through suffering. Yeah. Wow. That was I think that was an excellent observation that you made a lot of what you talked about because I, I did kind of put out that stereotype about empaths intuitives. And mediums and there is some commonality to that. But as you said, it could also be the opposite. It can close us off and I know people that have been that way they were they were intuitive. And then the world just kind of like nobody would believe them or they went through some other trauma or, and you're just so feeling so much that you shut that part of yourself down. But there's also this, this is kind of a it's become cliche. Now everybody says I'm an empath, you know, like, so that's why people kind of make fun of that, right? Absolutely. I think you're right, we're all we're all empathic to some degree. except but when we say I'm an empath, that's what people I think are kind of making fun of. Mm hmm, totally. And the truth is, like, if you can't laugh at yourself, you have a problem. Like, I think there was a time where I was a little sensitive to media representations of empaths, or, you know, intuitive people. And as I've, as I've become more comfortable with my gifts, and as as, as I've experienced more ownership, and less imposter syndrome, and all those things, now, I'm able to laugh at it as well. And it is funny, like I love there's like a big tick tock trend right now people like, you know, making fun of empaths in this release specific way, and I laugh every time it's hilarious. But also, I think I'm able to laugh at that, because I'm extremely secure in my empathetic self. And also, I, I also kind of avoid i but there's several terms I've avoided in my life, I avoid the term psychic, because of the connotation of like, you know, the palm reader with a neon sign, you know, on the Boulevard or whatever. I also have avoided the term Empath, and I tend to identify as Clairsentience or Claire empathetic, meaning that you can feel intuitively information through your physical body or your emotional body. And so I think that I think that it's important to be able to have humor around all things. It's a, it's a medicine, it's healing, it's powerful. But also, if there are people out there who have never heard of an empath, now that word is out there, and whether they have a positive or negative relationship to it is okay, because they're learning. And so I think it's important. Yeah, I think it's really, it's important to it, you know, when you when you use the term psychic, and that's a term that has a negative connotation to because when we think about the person, you know, in the mall, or the person that's at the fair or something, and they tell us very, very general things, but I can tell you from experience, some of those people are very real. I have a friend, so many stories is incredible. He was younger, and he went to a psychic just as a joke. And she said, you're going to be married three times, you can have two children that aren't your own. And this was when he was very young. And I'm like, That's pretty specific. Of course, 3040 years later, turns out he's been married three times, and he's adopted two children. And that's something so people say, whenever it someone says they're all fake, I think about that story that this guy told me, I know, you know that, that that was very real. So that, but the thing is in in the field, or you're in the profession that you're in, there are people I would say that people that are fake, they're frauds, there are people who just aren't very good. And then there are people who are actually legitimate. And those other two categories, give the people that are legitimate, you know, a bad name. And that's what yeah, that's what we kind of have to laugh at. Right? We have to say, Okay, I can't take that too. Seriously. Absolutely. I think, even myself, one of the things that I've done always, because I, in my career, I was so lucky, and so fortunate to be successful, kind of right off the bat quite early, quite young. And my books were full. And there were people who, you know, could no longer afford to work with me or did there was not an opportunity. And they would ask me for referrals. And so I would consistently try to experience the gifts of other people in order to create a network for referral and people that I could trust and I had horrible experiences. I to this day, people will say like, who can you send me to? And I'm like, to be honest, I haven't really found another practitioner quite yet. That I trust completely. Although I do think that that's, that's shifting, I'm coming into a lot of really powerful connections right now that I'm grateful for. But, you know, I've had people be like, Oh, your grandmother's talking to me from the other side. And I'm like, which one because they're both still alive. So, you know. We, the other thing that we see is a lot of predatory energy, a lot of predatory energy in this industry, where people will say, Oh, I see something attached to you, it's gonna cost you $3,000, for me to remove this energy from you. Not only that, but now in the world of technology. And this past year, I've had almost 20 fake accounts of me trying to sell people readings through DMS. And that is an epidemic right now, on social media that a lot of readers are experiencing, and it's ruining lives during the lives of practitioners ruining the lives of people. I actually, while one of the accounts was up and running at the time, there were like 10 or 10 at a time that I was dealing with. One of my very best friend's mother's sent me like $20 on Venmo. So I reached out to my friend was like, Why did your mom sent me this money? And she was like, oh my god, I think one of the scammers tried to get her but luckily, my friend's mom had already connected with me on Venmo. So she sent it to actually me instead of the scammer, and so that was a blessing. So I wouldn't want anyone to lose $20 In the name of trying to work with me and not not actually receiving that. But I'm also, I feel super fortunate because I built a strong community. So I have, you know, 20,000 people out there that are like you're a scammer, you're not real, or, you know, wonderful clients who will send me emails and say, like, this person tried to get me and I told them, I'm like, thank you guys. So it's so sweet to see the way that, you know, the work that I do has positively impacted people to the point that they want to defend me that they love me, and they want to support me. And so I feel so incredibly grateful for my community and my listeners on my podcast, my clients that I've had over the past decade, and the love that we share. And I think that I've been able to develop those relationships, because there's authenticity in the work, like, when people come to session with me, I'm able to see them through the eyes of their guides through like angels through spirit. And Spirit loves all of us, whether we are, you know, flawed or perfect, which of course none of us are. And to be able to see people in their perfection because of their flaws, because of their wounds because of their journey. I just fall in love with every person that I work with. And I remember, essentially every detail about what we've talked about, or what we've experienced, it's imprinted itself upon me. And I feel extraordinarily grateful for the opportunity to like, genuinely serve souls. And I can see why other people would want to be in this industry, because it's extraordinarily rewarding. However, we do have those those out there who are taking advantage. And I think a lot of us out here who are doing the real work, do try to educate and talk about here are some signs of like, what to avoid. If someone says this to you, like, don't give them your money. We do try to create kind of education around that and protect people because we want them to really experience healing and not scams or further trauma. Because we love them. Yeah. Now, most of my listeners are on meiosis, I'm pretty sure would be familiar with what what mediums are right? So so people know that there are mediums and we know that there are psychics or intuitives. Yeah, and you know, I've heard some mediums of all say, well, all mediums are psychic, but not all psychics or mediums know, for you, what does it mean to be to be an intuitive? Or what kinds of things can you help people with other than winning the lottery? That's a good question. So first of all, I want to say I've never helped anyone win the lottery, and I wouldn't. I don't, if it's not in your karma, you're not gonna win. And if it is, in your karma, you're already going to know the numbers, they don't need me to tell you. So that's such an important question. And I have discovered in my life, that there are certain things that I'm able to do and certain things that I've been discovered that I'm able to do that I'm not comfortable doing. And so just like any other line of work, or any other, you know, attribute, you're going to want to draw boundaries around your work, you're going to want to establish parameters. So to give you a short example, when I was in college, this all started to really ramp up for me, I think spirit was trying to, like, really push me in a specific direction. And I still wasn't quite getting the memo. I was still like, no, no, I'm going to be a journalist and spirit was like, No, you're not. But I was walking out of my dorm. And I saw this girl that I really did not know, I knew who she was, because I was in a smaller college. I knew who she was, I knew who her boyfriend was. But I had never spoken to her a day in my life. And we'd already been in school for like two or two and a half years at that point. And I saw her sitting on this bench, and I thought, Oh, her boyfriends gonna break up with her tomorrow. And I remember being like, that's none of my business. Like, I don't want to know that I don't even know this girl. And sure enough, the rumor mill, you know, brought to my attention within a couple days that they had been broken up and what have you. And I remember in that moment, thinking, I don't like that I don't feel comfortable with with that. So I created a boundary with spirit that I don't want to be the person that just knows like, about everyone around me, I don't want to be the person that approaches the lady trying to buy broccolini telling her that her dead so and so is trying, you know, like, I personally wouldn't want someone approaching me while I'm shopping for broccolini I don't want to be the person that comes in and it feels to me like an energetic assault. I think there are people out there who would love to have that experience. I'm not one of them. And so golden rule, you give what you want to get in life. And so I told spirit, I don't want to know things about people unless we enter into an exchange where they know that's what's gonna happen. I know that's what's going to happen. So for me, session work is extremely important because it creates that parameter, it creates that boundary in that container in which I've agreed to receive information they've agreed to receive information and we've agreed to do that together. Also, in college, with that was when I start started being able to communicate with people who'd passed on. And I was not a fan of that, because people that are that have passed on, at least for quite some time are still themselves. And so if your Great Aunt Bessie gave bad advice in life, she's going to get bad advice in death, at least, you know, for a while until she begins to kind of assimilate back into just energy. And so what? No, no, it's it put me kind of I felt very in the middle and felt very triangulated. And a lot of those circumstances. So I think there are people who are like, that's what I love to do. I'm not so much however, I have done I continue to do that work if I feel really called to. So I recently just spoke with a client who her father passed away from COVID. And she needed deeply to hear from him deeply to get messages. And he did come he did come through and was very polite about it. He was like, Would you mind if I just spoke to and I was like, You know what, you guys are both being really cool about this. Yes, I'm happy to be in the middle. There have also been circumstances where I had a, I had two clients or married couple that were a little older, and their beloved shitzu passed away, they asked me to help find her reincarnated soul. And so I actually did, we did that. It's a very long story. But that dog also ended up dying from the exact same condition in the exact same spot in her spine as the previous dog. And it's a very long story. It's a great one, and one that, you know, maybe I'll tell another time, but the point being, you know, there are times when I feel comfortable doing that kind of work. And there are times when I don't feel comfortable doing that kind of work. And it's just about, you know, the same way that you would feel comfortable talking to some people and not other people like, and for me, I've discovered that energy is truly a currency. And if I feel that I'm in a situation or a circumstance, where I feel that I am being drained and something is not feeling fulfilling for me, then something is out of alignment. And for me, an energy exchange can be as simple as giving something to a client. And it feels good to do that, when it doesn't feel good. I know that something is a little off. But essentially, to answer your actual question, I told you I was good at talking. Essentially, to answer your question, the work that I'm primarily focused on is helping people to understand and be able to receive information from their guides to help them make choices that are in their highest alignment, essentially, we have the ability to go down any number of infinite paths of possibility from where we stand. And there are some paths that are more likely than others, like it's more likely that I'll live a peaceful existence than that I will somehow become addicted to meth and you know, go like, that's just not super likely, based on the trajectory of my energy. But there are still millions of paths that are possible from the trajectory of my energy. And so my job is to receive their questions to hear where you know, what it is that they're looking for, and to channel information from their guides to help them know what steps they can take, what actionable moves they can make, from where they stand, to be able to move down the path that they desire, or the path that would lead them into the highest good. So sometimes people will come to me, I'll either validate what they're looking to do, or redirect what they're looking to do, to make sure that they are in alignment that they are walking toward fulfillment. And as humans our desire, our just our sense of desire is extraordinarily strong, and can pull us away from what we need or what is ultimately in our highest good because we get attached to want very easily. So sometimes it's useful to have someone unbiased who doesn't know you be able to say what you want is not necessarily the most supportive to you and I think that happens the most around love people being like, really want to get back together with them and I'm like, I don't think you do if you really think about it, like I don't think that's what would be the best um, and spirit will support you in in making decisions like that. So it can range from anything around love purpose, you know, personal power healing moving through grief. It I can't say there's a topic that I haven't discussed. And every I even I have billionaire clients who will give me a list of names as to who should I hire, you know, what, what stock prices can I expect? Should I buy this house? You know, it can range from the Menuett to the to the grand so this brings up a really deep question that it's a debate right between freewill and pre predestination right so you said that you got a message this girl's boyfriend's gonna Break up with our next day. So what is your personal belief? And I'll break this into a couple parts. So the first part I'll ask is, when you get a message that something is going to happen, does that mean it's going to happen that it's likely to happen? What does that mean? We'll get back to grief to growth in just a few seconds. Did you know that Brian is an author and a life coach, if you're grieving or know someone who is grieving his book, grief to growth is a best selling easy to read book that might help you or someone you know, people work with Brian as a life coach to break through barriers and live their best lives. You can find out more about Brian and what he offers at WWW dot grief to growth.com www dot g ri, E F, the number two gr o w th.com. If you'd like to support this podcast, visit www.patreon.com/grief to growth www.patren.com/g ri, E F, the number two gr O W th to make a financial contribution. And now back to grief to growth. really obsessed with your questions, I have to just say that I think you're asking incredibly interesting questions. And this might be my favorite podcast interview I've ever done. So I just really am enjoying this conversation. So thank you. Such a good question. So you're right, freewill is huge. And there are certain aspects of life in which freewill plays a larger part than other aspects of our lives. There are things that we are destined to experience. And then the way that we move through the world and respond to what we were destined to experience is up to our freewill. So the truth is, most times our trauma, a destined experience, something that our soul needed to experience and learn in order to expand in this lifetime. There are smaller decisions all the time that are less destined, for instance, I have a problem, I drink a lot of matcha. And I had the choice this morning not to make this matcha knowing that I probably made a little too much it was gonna affect me, it's gonna change my energy was gonna change my appetite, I had the power to decide not to make this I also had the power to decide to make it which obviously I took advantage of. And it's those smaller choices that can ripple out into the rest of our life and shift the way that we move it. That's what kind of takes us down those infinite paths of reality. Infinite paths possibility. But ultimately, there are like milestones, things that you're just supposed to come to on the path, but your way to them is absolutely yours to decide. And I think that at least I know that I've learned that love is one of the things that is very much up to human freewill. And people are quite attached to the idea that there is like one person for us like a soulmate. And from my experience for my channeling and the work that I've done, I find that that's not the case. So I am a very happily in love married person. Husband is honestly my favorite person on the planet, I can't imagine that it's possible that I could love someone more than him. But I know that it's possible, it is true, there are quite a quite a number of people that we can each merge our energy with. And we choose, I chose my husband, I could have equally chosen another person that spirit would bring into my path. But there was something that just felt like this is a choice that I feel good about making. I have many intuitive friends who are in relationships, and they can see the alternate possibilities. Like they can see that there's another person that could come into their path or another person that could, you know, find their way into their life. And they are comfortable with the fact that they have chosen their person their partner. So that's just an example. For instance, as well, right? Like it's my destiny to be connected to my intuition. But the way that I use my intuition, the way that I've chosen to serve is ultimately my choice. I could have devoted myself to being a you know, a psychic detective and I could have devoted myself to assisting the police or I could have used it to enhance my ability as an investor, right? Like there's certain ways that intuition serves us in big and small ways. I could have chosen any number of ways to use that gift but I had this gift. It was part of my destiny. It's part of my my personal journey. And I've chosen to exercise it in a certain way. That feels right for me, we co create our lives, we co write our story, and we actually have a lot of power to Author this story before life, we write these things called soul contracts and soul contracts, Beecher, some of the experiences that we've had. And we know that those are things that must, must, must happen. And everything else is is up to us to to come here and to experience and to navigate, which is the exciting part of life. I Zoey, I've asked that question. I can't tell you how many people and that that was my favorite answer. That was I think the way you put it was so and because that's the conclusion I've come to it's not either or, and in our human way of thinking, I'm very left brain kind of an illogical person. We think okay, which is it's got to be one or the other. And it's got to be either as determined or it's not. And I think it's both. I think there's, I think there is freewill. And I like the way you put it, we've got these guidelines or these milestones that we're going to hit. But our path between those could be different. And so there we do, it's not just an illusion of freewill. No one said Zoey had to make much of this morning. But the bigger things I do believe are planned, I think that they're planned, not by some external force, but by ourselves. Well, we are the external force, like, especially as we, as we come together, like in Unity, we are spirit. So for instance, people ask me all the time, like, Who are you talking to? Like when you're talking to spirit when you're talking to spirit guides? Like who? Who is that exactly right. And what I've learned is that we are all whether we are visible or non visible, energetic beings, simply different aspects of a larger energy source, which has this innate intelligence. So when, when you were created when when the soul that you possess, whether it's Brian, or whether it's who you've been in past lifetimes, whoever that is, right? You were created, and plucked from the collective energy into an individual being. And when you were created, there were, there were non visible pieces that were plucked, and assigned to you to move with you through your incalculable lifetimes, all the lifetimes, you've lived, the one you're in now, and all the ones you're going to live, they were assigned to you. And those are your spirit guides. And people have a hard time with that concept. Because they're like, there's pieces of spirit that are there to just serve and support and guide and love me, me like I get that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, you do. You're so loved. You're so protected, you're so supported, you're so cared for. And those energies, like I said, move with you throughout your lifetimes. And they have this like infinite wisdom and knowledge. There's also the piece of ourselves known as the higher self, which is the part of you that knows what it is that knows that it's energy that knows that it's part of the collective, and can see through every direction of time and space. And I would say that that voice, in connection with your guides, and the greater innate knowledge is your intuition. It speaks to you from the inside and goes, I really think if we go that way, we're gonna like it. And it's that it's when we are able to discern that voice from the voice of our ego, that we become empowered, and able to make the most wonderful Free Will choices that will bring us closer to where we desire to be, rather than, you know, taking us on these detours. Ego can really get you spinning in circles can get you stuck, and kind of stagnant for a long time. Whereas intuition is very progressive, like it really moves you if you can listen to it, and you can learn to discern those voices. And essentially, that's where my work has shifted out of client work as a focus and into this intuitive development mentorship program where I use mind hacking positive psychology, as for which I think appeals to your left brain, self, and also spiritual principles to help you override ego to help you understand and discern between those voices and learn how to hear the whispers of spirit over the screaming of ego. And it's a really cool process. And I love going through it with people. And the variety of people that come forward to have that experience are so fascinating. Like I'm in a current cohort right now. And I have two reality television stars, a billionaire, a trucking company owner, like I just have like a wide array of people. And no matter who you are, you want to know how to hear your higher self. You want to know how to hear your guides and how to be connected. And it's such a it's such a beautiful gift because I found that I was doing this for other people all the time, right? Like I'm I'm like a phone line. I'm like, Okay, you have this question. Okay, your spirit guides are answered with this message and we translate that and give it back to you. And I was like, what if I just connected the line? What if I just remove myself from the equation empowering people with this ability to do them do this themselves, or at least remind them that they have disability already and teach them how to access it, how to wake it up how to use it. And so that's become like the focus of the work that I do. Yeah, I think that's awesome. And it reminds me, I've worked with a lot of mediums, who, that's what they do, they connect, they connect us to our loved ones. And I've found that many of them as they go forward in their career, for a variety of reasons, move out of just doing one on one client work to I want to teach you how to do this. And it sounds like that's, that's the phase that you're in now, where it's I'm helping people. And I don't really like the idea of developing our intuitions more like rediscovering it or tapping into it. I think it's just as you said, it's part of who we naturally are. And this idea of, of the higher self is just, that's us. That's not something external to that. That's, that's just, it's kind of like we have this image of it being out there and up there. But it's actually more like in here. Absolutely. I actually have a question for you if that's okay. Yeah, sure. Have you already written a book? Or are you preparing to write a book, I've written a book. So one of the things that I feel unavoidably around your energy is authoring. I feel like there's a lot of writing that's going to continue to take shape from you. And I actually am so excited to read what you create and what you've already created. Actually, I'd love to get a copy. Because I think that your innate wisdom is very strong. And my impression of your energy is that like, as you as you write, you're channeling, like you're receiving a lot from your higher self from collective consciousness, and delivering it in a way that human beings can really receive and understand. And I think there's a lot more writing that you're gonna do. So I would love to see how that manifests for you in the future. Thanks. That's, that's interesting, actually, the day after my daughter passed, I started my blog. So I'm interested, there are probably 1000 entries. So there's, there's a lot of stuff I've written, but it's a matter of organizing it and getting it into some sort of a format that people can read. But I have written one, one short book about about grief. But yeah, I appreciate that. So some of the questions I had written down to ask you we've already gone through, but I'm curious about the name of your website, mer. hypsi. What is Oh, yeah, I got to sorry about that. Yeah, so more hypsi is a portmanteau which is which means a word made of other words. So I developed the brand or the identity, it's really my alter ego. It's like, who I am when I'm my hippie, spiritual self. Because I'm also just very human, right? Like I, I love bad television, sugary cereal, you know, I'm not like a, I'm not completely a crunchy, hippie type. But when I am, I am the more hypsi. And when I developed this identity, the spiritual world was it had a very different climate. And I, frankly, as a white person, had a lot of things that I needed to learn. And so we're hypsi is actually a portmanteau of the words mermaid, hippie and gypsy. But I've since learned that gypsy is not an acceptable word term, it's not something that I can use. And so I've removed it from the definition, and kind of the expression of more hypsi. But I have kept the name, because I think there's power and ownership of the things that we learn and the mistakes that we make. And so I really, I love talking about it. I love saying like, yeah, I didn't know that I learned when I stopped. And that's what you do. And you'd be shocked at the amount of people that I talk about this when I tell them I tell it to you or just like talk about it. I made like a big announcement on social media like hey, I'm doing this just want you guys to know I shouldn't you shouldn't we should use this word. And people just so defensive over it. It's like What the shit Do you care if you can keep saying the word gypsy? Like just doesn't really affect your life to stop saying it. Um, but yes, that is what the more hypsi is. And it is my alter ego who is like this very ethereal, mermaid hippie, like wander lustful being. And actually, I was living in Thailand and doing anthropological studies of their third gender, population and sex workers and things at the time that I developed that identity. And actually, while I was there, I attended this spiritual festivals like yoga festival thing, and there was a woman there doing card readings, intuitive readings, using the exact same decks that I had had since I was about seven years old, and I still have them to this day in a drawer right in front of me, along with all my other ones. And I remember thinking, this lady could like travel the world doing readings for people with these decks, these decks that I own tools that are accessible to me, like, if she can do this, I can do this. And it was kind of around that time that I began to think like, Who could I be if I was living this life to the fullest extent? And the answer was the more hypsi. And so now I honestly will still get sometimes stopped on the street, or people will message me and they think it's my actual name, or they think that's my last name. Yes, cute. But no, just a portmanteau that represents my alter ego and my, my inner self. Yeah, I'm glad I asked. That's really interesting story. So for people, for people that say, I'm not intuitive, I can't do this. I don't I don't get this. So what what is it the causes that what blocks us from from tapping into our intuition? It's such a good question. For a lot of people, it is the misunderstanding of intuition. As something scary, a lot of people perceive it as like a door that opens that you can't control. Once it's open, just anything can get through, kind of like a Ouija board, people are like, you don't know who's on the other side of it. I, in all my work, I've just not encountered dark, I've encountered lost souls, I've encountered mental illness I've encountered, you know, people who are living in their own darkness, but I haven't experienced like a demon or, you know, I don't mess with that. And also, I haven't found it. So I'm not, I'm not convinced that it's there personally. So I think a lot of people have fear around what being intuitive or being connected intuition is and what it does in your life, especially because of mainstream media, the way that it's portrayed. Being a psychic person or being an intuitive person, or, you know, what happens when you're when you're open to the spiritual realm. I think there's a lot of fear that's created there. Also, blocks as a as a result of religious upbringing, I don't believe that religion is a bad thing, I don't believe that religion is negative or harmful, I believe that it can separate you from aspects of yourself, to serve its own agenda. When when you become reliant on someone else, whether it's a priest, or a pastor, or a bishop, or a nun, or whatever a guru, to be your guiding source, and to tell you how to live and what to do, you do relinquish your own personal power to the thoughts of someone else, or the the beliefs of someone else, or a collective. And so I do think that intuition is seen as outside of what is acceptable in certain religions, my husband grew up Mormon. And, you know, it's not necessarily appropriate to receive answers on behalf of other people, from what I understand from what I've received from him. He obviously supports me and loves me and loves the work that I do. But in his upbringing, he's explained to me, oh, you know, this isn't what we learned. And I believe that that's true. And a lot of different religions. And many, many, many people that I work with have experienced religious trauma, and they're trying to overcome it. And they also experienced fear of what happens when you open that door. Also, just the idea that you can't society tells you like, that's not real. That's, that's make believe that's woowoo. That's for Harry Potter. That's for fairy tales, and storybooks. So all of these ideas that are just put upon us and put upon us and put upon us that can create huge blocks, as well as when we do use our intuition. And it is negated by other people. Now you can be right, you can be clear your intuition can be highly performative. And by that I mean functional. But if the people around you are denying your reality, or changing the narrative, or telling you that you're wrong, that can be extremely traumatic. And just like any part of us that can close as a result of trauma, your third eye, your intuitive self can can recoil in the face of trauma, and, and cause blocks. And if someone tells you your whole life, you're not you're not really seeing that that's not real. That's not possible. That's the narrative that you're going to fall into Unbeliev. And so having someone there to say, it is possible, it is real. You were right, you were seeing this, this is totally true for you. That can almost feel even scarier, because you become comfortable with the narrative that it's not that you're not that it can't. And so it can actually be quite jarring for people to be told. You're intuitive and you can do these things. You can see these things because they're like, that doesn't feel safe. Last time I tried that. I got yelled at. I got told I was wrong, I got sent to my room, I got grounded, I got hit, whatever that could be. There's consequences. And so it gets associated with consequences. Yeah, I think that's really important. And it brings me back to something you said at the very beginning, this, this trauma, there's energetic connection that sometimes we have, because of a shared or similar traumas, apartment organization called helping parents heal, and it's for parents who have children who have passed on. And the the connections that we have are just so amazing and usually like immediate. I mean, you meet somebody, we've had one, we had one conference, it was it was in Phoenix and Scottsdale about three years ago. And just the connection that we all had there people in the hotel were like, What is Who was that group? It's a group over there. And it's like, Oh, those are the parents of the dead kids. But we were all just so, so thrilled to be around each other. And but the thing is, there's so much fear, like people want to connect to their child you want to, but religion tells you no, you can't do that. That's not right. You know, I had a dream about her the other night, and people told me, Well, that's not real. So it's really important to get with people that will validate your experience, and that that's what I wanted to get around to. It's like, stop listening to people that tell you it's not real. I can't even tell you how powerful that is. And in fact, dreams and the dream space is one of the easiest spaces for spirit to communicate with us. So many times a deceased loved one will come through in your dreams and tell you things. They really they just know, it's one of the easiest ways to get your attention. There's you're not doing anything, right. Like there's nothing you're doing. They know that they can get through at that time. It is so powerful. And there's so much healing in the messages and the experiences that you can share with someone in the dream space. So absolutely. That's a real, real real experience. But you're absolutely right. That there is like we talked about unity. Sometimes in trauma, trauma can be so unifying, because there's, it feels it feels like when you're going through trauma that no one in the world can understand. But no one else has ever been in so much pain that no one else has ever gone through what you're going through. And I myself felt very isolated in my teen years as my family was falling apart thinking. I'm the only person that is going through this because I was the only person that I knew that was going through that. But as I got older, was like, Oh, your family went through that or your family on this. We are so good at tucking our trauma away, tucking our wounds, putting away our messiness, hiding it behind closed doors, so that we can look normal. But the truth is, but having a messy life is normal. My I use my husband as an example all the time because he had a very peaceful, loving, joyful upbringing. His two parents love each other. They still hold hands everywhere they go like, sweet, beautiful couple. He's the freak. I don't know anybody who's had a good upbringing like that, except for him. And all my friends and I were always like, Oh, our trauma or childhood or this or that. And he's like, yeah, that seems that sounds like it was probably really hard. We're like, Nash Shut up. You don't get it? Like you don't know what it's like that family traveling. Yeah. You know, and I always think it's so funny to kind of almost like to almost like pick on him and like, singled him out as like, oh, you had a normal, happy, healthy childhood. Because when we're going through our wounds in childhood, and we're going through that, like family trauma, we think, Oh, my God, no one goes through this too. So when you do finally find it, and you do finally find people who can validate your experiences. It is such a healing moment. Because you realize you're not alone anymore. Not alone in your pain, even though that person didn't go through exactly what you went through. And vice versa. There's something that you can share in that experience that makes you feel a little less alone, a little more understood. And it's brings us back into unity, and unity is our subconscious goal. That's why we're so obsessed with love. That's why we're so obsessed with family is why we're so obsessed with these ideas of like, how we can connect to people, because all we want to do is get back to oneness. And that's the closest we can get in this lifetime. Because we don't really get back there till we die. So yeah, well, essentially, as you said, I thought about when I was a little kid, I hated the fact that we're like all separate beings. I was like, when I was a kid, I'm like, why are we separate? And I just I just really didn't understand that was a kid. But as we grew up, we kind of learned to accept that but you're I think the one thing we're always seeking is getting back to that one is making that connection with other people at a really deep level that we rarely experience while we're here in the body. Yeah, you're absolutely right. So I wanted to ask you about your, your intuitive development program. What is that like? And so we'll start with that. So what's what's your intuitive development program? Like? Absolutely, it is a 30 day immersive experience, it's experienced virtually. And it is a group experience. Because we love community, we love oneness. And there are people all over the world who want to do this stuff want to experience this stuff, and there's no way around them, they can talk to about it. So bringing people together to experience this, this journey was very important to me. And it's been so beautiful to see these cohorts, one after the other after the other, just be friends and love each other and support each other. So for 30 days, we have a morning and an evening routine that is based on mind hacking, positive psychology, as well as practices of spirituality, your brain recycles 90% of its thoughts from day to day. So if you can begin to infiltrate that very like automatic way of thinking with the things that you want to be thinking about, you're actually able to form new neural pathways, there's a lot of different ways that you can do that. And so because society because life tells us constantly, you're not intuitive, you can't you don't you blah, blah, blah, it's not real. That's the neural pathway that we have developed. So this whole protocol is actually based on developing a new neural pathway. There's a series of 11 lectures that talk about mindset, the power of the mind, neuroplasticity, understanding concepts, like your ego, your intuition, your intuitive type. And then over those 30 days, you have 24/7 access to me through an app where we can talk to each other, and I can answer questions for you. Because intuition isn't like a one size fits all thing, we all experience it a little bit differently. And so my goal is to sit with each individual as much as I can and help them identify how they receive intuitive information so that they can become habituated to it, they can recognize it more easily, and therefore act upon it more easily. There's also certain tasks you have to do each day as well as a daily assignment, because it's been found that you are able to create new neural pathways 400 times faster through play through games through fun. And so there are daily activities and assignments that are based on some of those principles, as well as the idea of playing. So for instance, today, their assignment is to work with Zener cards, which are these cards that have four or five different sets of five shapes, and you have to kind of practice your pre cognition of knowing which one is on the other side, which shape is on the other side. And I think it's you know, although it's one of our more playful assignments, I think it's so important play is just such an important part of reclaiming your intuitive self, especially because our inner child who we were, as we came to this earth is powerfully intuitive. And play connects you back to your inner child. So it brings you back to your most authentic automatic self. So for 30 days, we do this morning evening routine, these daily activities. And there are also weekly lectures where I teach you about reading oracle cards, interpreting and understanding auras, using a pendulum as a divination tool, spiritual hygiene, crystals, different tools that you can use as an intuitive being to care for yourself or work with others. And I have to say, it's probably my favorite thing I've ever done in my career. And I've done a lot of really cool things that I'm really grateful to have experienced. And this is by far my favorite. Yeah, it sounds it sounds awesome. I'm actually in about the middle of a seven week coaching course. And it's similar that there's an app, there's a there's a exercises all during the day, and then definitely that, and I think it's really, really important to you can't just sit down and hear something one time, you can't, you can't just you know, read a book, it's really got to become a habit, it's got to be said that you do it. So I like the idea of this 30 day thing where something everyday it's really intense. And it could be really uncomfortable. The thing I'm doing right now, there's a lot of shadow work involved in it, which I never really done quite at this level before. Because at first it feels like okay, I'm falling apart. But but that's the way you you make the breakthrough. So I really love the way that that's designed. And, and you're right that the science of it really appeals to me the mind hacking because our brains, we do tend to think a certain way and you've got to you've got to break that cycle. You got to say, Okay, no, this was the way we're going to think from now on and that requires daily practice. Absolutely. You also brought up a an important point. And as I was listening to is this moving through every step of what you were saying. And so I've actually lost my train of thought around it, but something you just said really struck me and when I listened back to this episode, I'll remember it and I'll and I'll message you, but it was very powerful. It sounds good. So tell me about your podcast. Oh my gosh. I am the host of the mystic rebel podcast. I've published two oracle decks and my product line is called Mr. Gribble. So it made sense in my my podcast We called Mr. Gribble. And I share real client sessions. Because when I was doing these sessions, I found that there were so many like patterns in what people were going through. And I thought, Man, I know this other client I just had would have had such a an important breakthrough from hearing that, or it really struck me like this medicine is for the masses, because we're each a microcosm of the greater. So people do agree to share their clients sessions, I'm not just like picking my favorites and putting them out there. It's all anonymous, I protect people's identities. And so two of the sessions each are two of the episodes each month, because it comes out once a week, our client sessions, then I usually feature a an interview similar to this with a practitioner, who I think is doing work that people might not have heard of helping people to become more familiar with modalities that exist out there for healing. And then I also will do monthly, his solo episode, where I pick a topic that I feel like, is worth tuning into and discussing. And it's usually predicated on some sort of spiritual topic. But I just find that it's, it's medicine for the collective, it's just about hearing yourself in other people, recognizing your own journey in other people's journeys, again, about feeling less isolated, and then also having pathways to understanding how you can begin to approach your healing through this wide array of modalities that exist, that are so supportive and helpful, that we may never even have heard of. But I think being a fly on the wall in a spiritual coaching session is also very powerful. Because there are so many people out there who are afraid to have that experience. And when they hear what it's actually like, they're like, oh, that's exactly what I've been wanting. And for me, especially, it's changed my relationship to client work, because people who do now want to have a session with me, I'm basically only doing sessions for the podcast, they're almost like these perfectly pre qualified leads of exactly the type of person that I would like to work with. Because they hear what I'm putting out there. And they're like, that's what I want. And they just come in with like, this open, loving positive energy that's so easy to tune into. Again, fall in love with them. So that's the focus of my podcast I've been, I'm on season five, if you can believe it. And I feel like every season, I just get more and more excited to do the work and just loving it every second. Yeah, that's, that's, I love that. Because, you know, again, sometimes we're like, what is this about? You know, because I actually did a past life regression, not too long ago with someone. And I did it for the podcast, because she she follows me for the podcast. And she said, I want to do this with you. And I said, Great, that way I can tell people what it's like. And I was like, I don't know if that's really you know, if I really want to do that, and it was awesome. It was a great experience. But and so when people can see this can see the sessions, like without putting the risk of going through it, that's a, that's a great way for you to give that to people and, and sometimes we can heal just by listening to other people, because we realize that we're all, we're all unique, but we're all the same. We're all very much a lot, a lot more likely than we'd like to believe we are very true. So we're coming to the end of our time. I really enjoyed meeting you. It's been it's been just a great experience having this conversation, like to give you the chance to say anything you'd like to say before we close today. Wow, very open invitation, I appreciate that. I just want to tell your listeners that I love them. That what they're moving through what they're going through the fact that they are tuning in and going on this journey with you is such a courageous step for them to take. It takes such deep courage to face our pain to face our grief to want to heal, to expand and to grow through pain is so incredibly courageous. And I really know and believe and feel that when you do the work, you come out on the other side of it in a very profound way. And I also would love to thank you, Brian, for being here for doing this work for facilitating for creating the space because you are a container for healing for many, many people. And it's a selfless thing to do. You could keep all this knowledge and wisdom and experience to yourself but you don't you share it and that is again, a courageous thing and a loving thing and a selfless thing. And I just am grateful that you exist and that you're doing this work, and we're all luckier because you are here. Thanks. It's great meeting you. Have a great rest of your day. Thank you so much. Don't forget to like, hit that big red subscribe button and click the notify Bell. Thanks for being here.